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#311382 - 03/05/19 03:08 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
This is akin to the "Benjamins" comment. Maybe the people who complained that the statement was anti-Semitic have never seen a $100 dollar bill, but right on the obverse, in plain view, with modern bug eyes is an image of ... wait for it .... wait for it .... Benjamin FRANKLIN. Not Netanyahu or not the "righteous one", Benjamin, son of Jacob.

Of course when I was young, the hillbillys where I lived referred to them as double ring bills.
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#311390 - 03/06/19 03:46 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17185
Ilhan Omar has admitted to being ignorant of the "loaded" nature of her choice of words and apologized for them (both times), and I believe her. I have, myself, been ignorant of sensitivities of others. The first one might have been more widely known, although the context of her statement was deliberately ignored, but the second one? I'd never heard that. Moreover she obviously was not talking about "Jews," but legislators, most of whom are not Jewish. Where these objections are going is to insulate any discussion of money with regard to Israel, whether reasonable, germane, or not, and that is dangerous. Money in politics is big problem, but I understand politicians wanting to gag members wanting to talk about it. I just don't accept it. Its a pretext, pure and simple.

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#311401 - 03/07/19 07:10 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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And it's a very real thing that Republicans felt more loyalty to BiBi, when Beaner invited him to address Congress without notifying President Obama, than to our actual President at the time. That fealty to a foreign nation is pretty close to treason and it really happened. Was it because our Congressmen love Jews so much? I don't think so. It's because they love the money they get for supporting Israel.

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#311404 - 03/07/19 03:01 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
It's because they love the money they get for supporting Israel.

I have thought about this for some time and I have never come to any definitive conclusion.

Sure they like the money, but would they take $M from say the KKK? (bad analogy but meant to make a point)

I used to think it was guilt from the holocaust, but we are 70 years from that.

I used to think it was some religious end of time fulfill some prophesy thing, but can that really motivate congressmen to continue to support Israel?

Pres Truman once said it was the worst decision he made when he supported the unilateral declaration of statehood by the Israelis. I concur but go even further. It was the worst decision of the League of Nations to declare nationhood for a group of people who had not occupied a particular piece of land for 1800 years. This was even worse than the already ongoing sub-division of nations following WW I.

Is the support because congressmen have an inherent hatred/dislike of Muslim nations? Because Israel is a US supporter? etc

And this goes on.

If America really stands for certain values then it probably has a responsibility to criticize other nations when they see those values abused, even allies. I am very critical of Israel policies because for me it is clear what the strategy is i.e. to eventually claim all land from West Bank to Mediterranean as Israeli and to disenfranchise native Palestinians in the West Bank in order to maintain control of land.
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#311409 - 03/07/19 08:31 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

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Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14621
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314

I used to think it was some religious end of time fulfill some prophesy thing, but can that really motivate congressmen to continue to support Israel?



Political Dominionism is real, it's well funded and it is a destructive force to any Republican politician who does not bow to it.
Religious Dominionism is real, it's well funded and it is an end times prophesy that involves a certain small piece of real estate in the Middle East which is supposed to become the seat of global biblical government in the End Times, a sort of Christiban Caliphate...once all those Jews have "been perfected" and become Christians, of course.
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#311411 - 03/07/19 09:04 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Political Dominionism

Yes for a few but it still doesn't explain it.

Consider examples like Sen Graham or Rep Boehner.
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#311412 - 03/07/19 09:23 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
OK i just heard part of an interview of Gov Kasich and it occurred to me he has a phony indignation. Let me explain.

He said she should have said something about which policies she wanted to criticize. OK ... I can see that but I think when one criticizes a country's policies one does it by criticizing the country. For example if I were to criticize apartheid ... I am against it. OK .. now what? How about if I criticize SA (yes the government of SA) for having a policy of apartheid.

Turn it around and suppose I say ... I criticize Israel (does that sound like I am criticizing the people of Israel? or a religion? No it sounds like I mean precisely the government of Israel which implies (since I obviously do not object to any one person in government) I criticize governmental policies.

But that is not what is happening. A citation is necessary.
Minnesota Congresswoman Ignites Debate On Israel And Anti-Semitism

Apparently Rep McCarthy was upset about Rep Omar's criticism of Israel. This suggests Republicans by virtue of idiot-ology can not criticize Israel (which goes back to reason for the unconditional support of Israel). Her response was their unconditional support was predicated on the financial support from AIPAC. "It's all about the Benjamins baby" if that doesn't mean it's all about the money, I don't know what does. I suppose if she said "It's all about the [shekels] baby" they may have a case. But since we know for Republicans it is "In the rich man's world
Money, money, money"

So My question is, how does one properly criticize Israel without being anti-Semitic?
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#311414 - 03/07/19 09:47 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8955
Loc: North San Diego County
Maybe you have to preface it with a bit of "I love Jews", BUT...

You know, Israel actually has some citizens who are Christian, some who are Muslim, and some who are Atheists. In fact, I think the Orthodox who seems to drive all the settlement problems are in a distinct minority. Most Israeli Jews I have met are just cultural Jews and not really religious. That's actually the main beef the Muslims have, because they are pretty devout. Some Ashkenazi Jews who immigrated from Russia actually have hog farms, which drive the Orthodox and Muslims crazy!

This "religious" dispute (that is actually all about conservatism) may morph quite a bit when Bibi gets indicted for corruption. That's supposed to happen Real Soon Now.

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#311417 - 03/07/19 10:41 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14621
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
Political Dominionism

Yes for a few but it still doesn't explain it.

Consider examples like Sen Graham or Rep Boehner.

I have.
I'm trying to point out that political Dominionism represents 90% of the Trump Republican base in Congress.
_________________________
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#311419 - 03/08/19 02:53 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
So let's examine your claim. I'll start by using these surveys.

An examination of the 2016 electorate, based on validated voters

Faith on the Hill The religious composition of the 116th Congress [quote][/quote]

I am unsure what you mean by Republican base n Congress so I will use two different meanings. First, the actual Trump supporters, or his base if you will, and second, Dominionists in Congress.

From the first citation we see evangelicals represent 20% of electorate and of those 77% voted for Mr Trump. Or 15.4% of his base are evangelicals.

From the second citation we have to calculate the number and it is a bit ambiguous. If we assume all Baptists are evangelicals and all people from the unspecified group are evangelicals we get 39% of Republicans are possibly Dominionists.

To further complicate the numbers consider that not all evangelicals are Dominionists, in fact Baptists, while fundamentally conservative religiously, believe in separation of church and state. I would venture to speculate Dominionist are a small number of people in either group.

While I agree these religious nuts are trying to legislate me from the pulpit and not from Congress. It's bad enough Congress can't write decent legislation and it gets even worse when preachers infringe on my free will. I think the bigotry of Trumpian nativism is far more insidious at this time than Dominionism, and I suspect bigotry motivates the Base more than religion. And second, fear of the base of Trump bigots instill fear in the remaining Republicans.

This is complicated and doesn't reside on a single plane.
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