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#310544 - 01/24/19 03:14 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14191
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
So long as the center right avoids --- SNIP


Excuse me, I don't think I even know what you're referring to anymore when you say "Center Right" because that's supposed to connect to today's "RINO's" who were booted out by the GOP.

But with you, it might mean "Democrats" because you've Humpty Dumpty'ed the term to mean whatever you want it to mean.

But I could be wrong wink
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310546 - 01/24/19 03:43 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
The neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party Jeff.
Known as 'third way' democrats under Bill Clinton or 'new labour' under Blair. A realignment of the Democratic Party with a more accommodating position towards corporate interests while moving away from its historic labor base.
C'mon Jeff. Don't act coy about the last thirty years of political consensus.

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#310547 - 01/24/19 05:16 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14191
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
The neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party Jeff.
Known as 'third way' democrats under Bill Clinton or 'new labour' under Blair. A realignment of the Democratic Party with a more accommodating position towards corporate interests while moving away from its historic labor base.
C'mon Jeff. Don't act coy about the last thirty years of political consensus.



You have to stop trying to put me in some kind of box, it won't work, and if I wanted to do that to you, I'd say that you're not much different than Glenn Greenwald, "a holier than thou "left libertarian" who hates actual liberals more than he hates fascists, by maintaining a disdain for party politics and the U.S. government in general, so that he can appear to be "neutral" by throwing everyone under the bus."

But I don't.

Ignore the slow steady progress being hammered into the Democratic Party by figures like AOC and others at your own expense.
It's no skin off my back, and when the next elections come around, be sure to vote against Democrats so that your vote can be siphoned off to help the fascist theocrats and crypto-nazis.

I doubt they will thank you for it, though.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310548 - 01/24/19 12:15 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
Jeff,
I could care less what you want to believe of the Democratic Party or how thin your knowledge of its political orientation goes. I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other over its 40 year trajectory from Carter to Clinton.
If your fine with it great! Follow your bliss pal.
I'm not. It's been moving right for decades now.
Ocasio won in spite if the democratic political machine. I enjoyed that. She represents the direction the party should be going in. That direction is a much different direction than it has been going in for the above mentioned 40 years. That direction is going to be fought against by the DCCC, DSCC, Emily's list, etc..
Well documented undermining of Cortez style progressive candidates being fought by these groups in favor of rebadged republicans.
No why should that be Jeff? What is it about the rebadged republicans that the democratic parties campaign committees would prefer over a more progressive candidate?
Again, I don't really care if your unable to grasp what has been described as a 'corporate coup d'état' of the Democratic Party.
Just don't demand loyalty oaths from those that disagree with the parties corporate orientation and don't have a problem criticizing it for it.
Sides, aren't you upset with AOC? I thought you only liked properly badged democrats with the party seal of approval...

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#310549 - 01/24/19 02:23 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14191
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Jeff,
I could care less what you want to believe of the Democratic Party or how thin your knowledge of its political orientation goes. I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other over its 40 year trajectory from Carter to Clinton.


You wouldn't have to. Just convince me that you're aware of the fact that a great emesis of traditional or moderate Republicans also has been happening in the last three major election cycles, spurred on by an effort that all started with a billion dollar gift that spawned a little astroturf outfit known as The Tea Party...



...And continuing on with the latest peristaltic ejections that have now culminated in the growing realization that President Donald Trump, and ONLY President Donald Trump, IS now THE party formerly known as The Republican Party.
Somewhere in all that steaming vomitus lies the emacerated corpses of former Republicans, who were traditionally thought of by a label known as "Center Right".

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

If your fine with it great! Follow your bliss pal.


There you go again, trying almost in desperate fashion, to control my messaging. Do you NEED me to be fine with it? Would it help you to look like you're making some kind of point if I pretended to be fine with it?

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

I'm not. It's been moving right for decades now.
Ocasio won in spite if the democratic political machine. I enjoyed that. She represents the direction the party should be going in. That direction is a much different direction than it has been going in for the above mentioned 40 years.


Yes, why yes it is, and the Democratic Party is slowly starting to realize that AOC has brought them a gift, a very rare gift. AOC terrifies the living daylights out of Trump and his Trumpista Party.
They don't whether to scratch their ass or wind their wristwatches because the twin dragons of AOC on one end of the spectrum and Nancy Pelosi on the other offer zero relief for them.
They can't get any kind of a deal from either library lion now guarding the House. They can't even hold their Nuremburg Rally
COUGH COUGH!!! errrr...State of the Union speech in there anymore.

tonbricks

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

That direction is going to be fought against by the DCCC, DSCC, Emily's list, etc..
Well documented undermining of Cortez style progressive candidates being fought by these groups in favor of rebadged republicans.
No why should that be Jeff? What is it about the rebadged republicans that the democratic parties campaign committees would prefer over a more progressive candidate?


Oh well, anyway...Emily's List and the establishment struggled a bit, kind of like the spoiled housecat who rubs your leg and then meows in protest when you pick her up. They're coming to the realization that the new breed of progressive liberals will actually attract something they desperately need, new voters. Those voters already flexed their muscle a couple of months ago and they're going to do it again in 2020, and the establishment is beginning to realize that they can no more stop this transformation than even John McCain could stop the Tea Party, whose current living exponents pissed on his grave when he died.

So again, just for clarification, just getting back to those emacerated RINO's for a moment...they weren't Center Right?
What were they then? I mean, we KNOW that there are a bunch of crypto-fascists and theocrats who form the bulk of the Trumpista Party, so they're clearly not Center Right.
What would you call their dearly departed RINO's, if not Center Right
?

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

Again, I don't really care if your unable to grasp what has been described as a 'corporate coup d'état' of the Democratic Party.
Just don't demand loyalty oaths from those that disagree with the parties corporate orientation and don't have a problem criticizing it for it.
Sides, aren't you upset with AOC? I thought you only liked properly badged democrats with the party seal of approval...


Properly badged? You say AOC ain't totin' credentials?
Hmmm, that's funny...

Quote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez standing
Member of the U.S. House of Representatives
from New York's 14th district
Incumbent
Assumed office
January 3, 2019
Preceded by Joe Crowley
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - born October 13, 1989, also known by the initialis "AOC", is an American politician and activist.
A member of the Democratic Party, she has been the U.S. Representative for New York's 14th congressional district since January 3, 2019.


You sure about that?

Have a great morning, Chunk.
I hope that you get over your "logjam", or constipation, or whatever it is you call that thing that forces you to throw everyone under the bus because they aren't...what was it we were supposed to be doing for you again?? (...seems like a "loyalty oath"...to YOU!)
I'd like to think that at some point, you might eventually come to the realization that while your accusations about Democratic Party mission creep carry enormous validity, the formerly glacial retreat toward neoliberalism hasn't just begun to slow, it's apparently reversing itself.

It might be imperceptible to you, but perhaps that is because you're too busy lashing out at other liberals and furiously trying to do your Paul Winchell act on them.


Take your hand outta my ass.
That's not just a suggestion. You do YOU, I'll do me, thanks.
Crikey, and I thought we were buddies.
I guess you're the personification of the kind of people in my sig line.
Leon Russell sure got you pinned, didn't he?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310555 - 01/24/19 04:23 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
Republicans- "hard" or "ultra Right"- Tea party, Orban, Bolsenaro, Lega party, Le Penn's National Front, etc...

Center Right- Neoliberal 'Third Way' democrats,Blair's New Labour, Schroeder's Christian Democratic Party, Macron's La Republican, etc

Left- DSA (Bernie Sanders, Ocasio Cortez), Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party, Podemas, Obrador, Etc...


It's not labels that separates them but their interests. I vote my interests and tune out phony made up party loyalty rules of politics. All the clucking about how it's incumbent on the left to support political positions they are opposed to. Voting for Neoliberalism basically.

If there's no left alternative I will be skipping it and letting the Ultraright or center right oriented parties battle it out among themselves.

I keep reading how there's a rule of being duty bound to vote for blue no matter who. If the party keeps sidelining leftists, leftists aren't duty bound to go pull the trigger for a center right Candidate. That's on the party to mobilize their base. That's politics.

Agree with it or don't. I don't care. Honest

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#310556 - 01/24/19 04:37 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
You know Jeff,
Posting is stupid and it's really little more than faux empowerment. It's not helpful pointing out party contradictions to people who would rather save it for the 'opposition' party.

Blue no matter who 2020! Enjoy yourselves agreeing with one another....


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#310558 - 01/24/19 05:45 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14191
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Republicans- "hard" or "ultra Right"- Tea party, Orban, Bolsenaro, Lega party, Le Penn's National Front, etc...



So you've left out Trumpistas entirely or you've made them one and the same with the remaining ordinary Republicans...???

"How can you be so obtuse, is it deliberate?"




Are Trumpistas and ordinary pre-Trump Republicans and Never Trumpers all the same to you?

Really? Seriously?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

Top
#310559 - 01/24/19 05:46 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14191
Loc: Whittier, California
And you still have to stop trying to put your hand up my ass, that's non-negotiable.
I don't even let Karen go in there.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310567 - 01/24/19 11:44 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15340
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Blue no matter who 2020! Enjoy yourselves agreeing with one another....


Well yeah, for the most part we're a bunch of Democrats here so we'll likely be voting for whoever happens to win the nomination.
We might not particularly like it but we will.

Is there someone else you'd rather we voted for?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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