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#311031 - 02/18/19 10:25 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15801
Loc: Florida
Quote:
In spite of the socialist thing they rate very high in the number of millionaires per capita.

I think I've mentioned that success or failure of an economic system should be judged not by how many rich people, but by how many poor people there are. Not by how rich the richest are but by how poor the poorest are.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311032 - 02/18/19 10:49 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2651
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
My point is that the countries of northern Europe are considered socialist by the right. So, we have a group of perceived socialists that have somehow been able to join nations with the highest number of millionaires per capita. Not only that but the vast majority, of those countries, have also managed to have an average income higher than that of the United States which, I suspect, also means that they have managed to also do better than we with the discrepancy between the top and the bottom.

So, my points were;
them claiming certain countries are socialist, and because they call the countries of northern Europe are socialist one would think these countries would be bastions of misery and starvation yet they rate some of the highest number of millionaires per capita and their average incomes are greater than our own. This, of course, means that 1)they have no idea what they are talking about, 2)providing stuff like healthcare is possible and will not bankrupt anybody (gov or persons) if done properly.

I also think that this captalist/socialist thing is bullsh*t and actually not pertinent to today, except in the minds of idiots. I am, of course, probably wrong and "socialist" never stands alone and can be, basically, anything to anybody.

In other words this topic actually makes little sense simply because there seems to be little consensus of what the terms themselves mean even though both sides think they know what everybody else is talking about. I, for instance, will stick to my version of "socialist" which means, to me, that gov owns everything and doles it out to their friends. As far as gov being "the workers" that one has been proven, time after time, to be complete baloney.

I was going to go on but, I think, I had better shut up. If I have given offense - apologies............... <G>

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#311033 - 02/19/19 02:26 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15801
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I am, of course, probably wrong

Yes, you are. But it's gracious of you to admit it.

You seem surprised that the socialist countries in northern Europe have been so successful. So surprised that you seem sure they cannot be socialist because they don't agree with your simplistic notion of what socialism should be.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311038 - 02/19/19 05:35 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8963
Loc: North San Diego County
Those successful socialist countries of Northern Europe are capitalists too. I sold my condo to a Danish furniture factory owner. He wanted a nice summer home in San Diego.

Fourth King of Bhutan, King Jigme Singye Wangchuck, in 1972 declared: “Gross National Happiness is more important than Gross Domestic Product.” They have been measuring it ever since. It's been in their constitution since 2008.

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#311049 - 02/19/19 06:20 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6979
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Thai King Bhumibol Adulyadej ... sounds like he was channeling Rostow in a different perspective. Hard to argue against history but of course the two major communist countries did.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#311050 - 02/19/19 06:24 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6979
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The goal of the government must be to take the most effective elements and use them for the good of the greatest number.

Why would I tacitly agree to create a government which did not provide services for me and my fellows citizens?

Maybe Mr Trump or someone from his constituency can answer that question?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#311064 - 02/20/19 04:43 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17185
In Trumpworld, the "greatest" number is 1.

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#311078 - 02/21/19 12:20 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15801
Loc: Florida
I see Putin has just delivered his state of the state address.

He did a little sabre rattling but mostly had to talk about higher wages, better healthcare, and other socialist issues because the proles are getting restless over there too.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311085 - 02/21/19 03:40 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1957
Meanwhile the fascists are still having to fine tune their populist message.....


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#311100 - 02/21/19 07:07 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1957
"Difference between Englishmen and Dutch: English are too polite to be honest and the Dutch are too honest to be polite&#65279;"

HAR!

It is a good time to have Dutch heritage though. Seriously, nobody can tell you to 'Go F#@k Yourself like the Dutch.

Billionaires paying Millionaires for not reporting on things...

Classic!

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