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#315190 - 09/11/19 03:40 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17270
I'm certain the view from your high horse is excellent, my friend, but give it a rest,
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

You quoted a small section of the law,
Yes, I quoted the law. Try it some time. Give us a citation. Do some f***ng research for a change.
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
without posting a link to the entire law,
I have cited the law so many times, and yet you persistently fail to read it. You know, my friend, you could actually look it up yourself... I gave you the cite. My favorite site is LII Cornell.
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
in an attempt to prove your claim.
Imagine that! Providing evidence to prove my claim . How irredeemably "pompous" of me!

I have a suggestion, my friend. It's actually in our rules: when making a claim, provide support. It is so much more enlightening than saying "you're wrong", repeatedly, and without support or references. Oh, and leave your horse in the barn. It makes for unflattering comparisons.

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#315191 - 09/11/19 04:21 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17270
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I stated the fact that what you call "cages" were built during the Obama administration. The pictures of kids in "cages" that has ideological blind liberals, like you, so bent out of shape were taken in 2014. Who was our President in 2014? Here is a clue, which you will overlook, it was NOT Trump!


Quote:
When members of Congress reached a bipartisan deal to end the government shutdown in February, they gave Immigration and Customs Enforcement a simple instruction: Stop detaining so many people. Instead, ICE pushed its detention population to an all-time high of 54,000 people, up from about 34,000 on an average day in 2016 and well above the 40,520 target Congress set for ICE.

Now, just after Congress rejected another request for more detention money, ICE is continuing to spend money it hasn’t been given. Mother Jones has learned that ICE has started using three new for-profit immigration detention centers in the Deep South in recent weeks.
Three new FOR PROFIT dentention centers!

Yeah, well...Who's grip on reality seems to be slipping here?
Beyond that it makes no difference to me which Party supports detention of non-criminal immigrants and refugees. It's cruel, wrong and counterproductive. It's a matter of paperwork. Or it's a matter of racist xenophobia. It's not a matter of everyone and anyone who breaks the law belongs in a cage. Authoritarians just really like people in cages!

Where are these people, of which there is a large number, to be kept, in a hotel? With a large number of people coming to our border doing the paperwork takes time. These people are being detained while the paper work is being done, hence the detention centers.
It would actually be cheaper to put them up in an overpriced Trump hotel. Trump’s Child Detention Camps Cost $775 Per Person Every Day. (GQ) Instead, ICE wanted to put them up in competitors' hotels, but the hotels refused. WHICH U.S. HOTELS ARE REFUSING TO HOLD D...…NOT JAIL THEM' (Newsweek).

There is a much cheaper and more effective option that has been used for years. "Community release and monitoring," or "intensive monitoring", what ICE refers to as "Alternatives to Detention" and right-wing sources pejoratively call "catch and release". "Numerous studies of dozens of alternatives-to-detention programs around the world have found community-based programming to maintain average compliance rates of 90 percent or higher, while costing up to 80 percent less than detention." A Better Way: Community-Based Programming As An Alternative To Immigrant Incarceration (National Immigration Justice Center). ICE has used it successfully for decades. ICE seeks to expand monitoring program for immigrants as alternative to detention. But this administration prefers "punishing" immigrants, in violation of federal law and Supreme Court rulings; Zadvydas v. Davis; Clark v.Martinez (Scalia wrote that 7-2 decision).

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#315192 - 09/11/19 06:02 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I have cited the law so many times, and yet you persistently fail to read it. You know, my friend, you could actually look it up yourself... I gave you the cite. My favorite site is LII Cornell.

If you did post it you did so before I returned to the Rant. That is why I have not seen it. You did not give me the cite.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315193 - 09/11/19 06:05 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9883
Loc: One of the Mexicos
NWP, you're missing the main point - it has to be detention centers because the punishment for their crimes needs to begin immediately.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#315195 - 09/11/19 06:32 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
If putting them in a hotel costs less than the detention centers I'm all for putting them in hotel. It saves money and creates jobs. A win win situation.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315197 - 09/11/19 08:05 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17270
Originally Posted By: logtroll
NWP, you're missing the main point - it has to be detention centers because the punishment for their crimes needs to begin immediately.
I did note that is was for punishment purposes... as this administration prefers, but the court has prohibited. In many cases there is no basis for punishment (but they'll do it anyway), and they WANT to have a case backlog, because then they can punish them longer. The current process is irredeemably wrong, and punitive, and inhumane, and that is what they want. How Trump broke the Immigration Courts (politico) If it was about processing, they'd hire more judges.

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#315280 - 09/13/19 06:08 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17270
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I have cited the law so many times, and yet you persistently fail to read it. You know, my friend, you could actually look it up yourself... I gave you the cite. My favorite site is LII Cornell.

If you did post it you did so before I returned to the Rant. That is why I have not seen it. You did not give me the cite.
Just a clarification: I did supply the cite, I didn't include a link. I've corrected that.

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