Current Topics
Roundtable for Summer 2019
by logtroll
35 minutes 52 seconds ago
Retired ? Is it what you thought it would be?
by NW Ponderer
53 minutes 4 seconds ago
Daimler starts first Freightliner eCascadia all-electric semi truck deliveries
by NW Ponderer
Today at 02:11 AM
The Social Credit System
by logtroll
Today at 01:31 AM
Senate activity
by jgw
Yesterday at 10:20 PM
"For Profit"
by Jeffery J. Haas
Yesterday at 08:20 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by Greger
Yesterday at 07:02 PM
College debt
by Mellowicious
Yesterday at 05:48 PM
Good bye?
by Greger
Yesterday at 05:13 PM
The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?
by Greger
Yesterday at 04:01 PM
Global warming predictions
by Greger
Yesterday at 02:21 PM
Moscow Mitch, eruption at Salt Lake...
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 01:13 AM
And we're off and running!
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 12:57 AM
What if making a public threat....?
by itstarted
Yesterday at 12:10 AM
Candidate suggestions....
by pdx rick
08/18/19 09:15 PM
Trump Administration Proposes New "Fairness" Doctrine
by logtroll
08/18/19 06:46 PM
Intolerance Of Intolerance
by pdx rick
08/17/19 02:37 AM
The Departed - 2019
by itstarted
08/17/19 01:24 AM
The Challenge of Returning
by BC
08/16/19 11:05 AM
This is American Conservatism
by NW Ponderer
08/16/19 04:51 AM
Forum Stats
6277 Members
59 Forums
16654 Topics
288008 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Topic Options
#311397 - 03/06/19 10:16 PM Shots
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2536
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been following the debate about folks getting their shots (measles, mumps, etc). I live in Washington state. Our law says, basically, if you don't want your kids to get shots its OK. Now, however, its getting a bit serious. Seems that we are the source of kids all over the country getting measles, etc so we are now thinking of tightening it up.

I have a solution. If somebody has decided not to make sure their kids have had their shots then the entire family should be quarantined, man, woman and children. As it is now kids that have not had their vaccinations get to infect folks by just walking around, going to school, etc. Just remove the damn fools when its catching season.

Top
#311398 - 03/07/19 06:38 AM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8646
Loc: North San Diego County
It is kind of self-correcting: People who don't get vaccinated get the diseases, and some of them die. That means we have fewer anti-vaxers in the population.

Top
#311436 - 03/08/19 09:26 PM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2536
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
AND while they are doing that they are infecting everybody else! Quarantine them!

I wonder if the state legislature will actually put a stop to those not getting shots because of just about anything.

Top
#311439 - 03/09/19 01:13 AM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15125
Loc: Florida
Quarantine? Like put 'em in cages? Or spaces carved out for their safety in quarantine facilities...

Turns out we have the infrastructure in place for that! tonbricks tonbricks
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#311443 - 03/09/19 07:45 PM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2536
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
When I grew up quarantine meant they stayed indoors. In their own homes and relatives or others brought them food. The safety issue is, as far as I am concerned, is for those who have got their shots and not the typhoid mary's of America.

I don't even know why we are talking about this stuff. In the good old days everybody got their shots (not really all that long ago). If they didn't then that was a serious problem. These days, however, I guess they have the 'right' to infect others because they are determined to ignore scientific fact. Its as if we have a population of ignoramuses (literally) determined to do whatever they damned well want regardless of the consequences.

Last night, on the news, the reported a case of tetanus. They rejected a tetanus shot, got tetanus and it cost the taxpayers one million dollars to save the child of science deniers. Gotta say, I am a bit sick of this behavior.

Top
#311446 - 03/09/19 09:10 PM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14008
Loc: Whittier, California
When I was a little kid I actually remember a family that was temporarily quarantined by the authorities. They all got over whatever disease it was but the kid brought in one of the paper signs that they plastered on the house.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

Top
#311454 - 03/10/19 08:42 AM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8646
Loc: North San Diego County
The story about the six year old boy was in the WaPo. Doctors had not seen a case in Oregon for over 30 years, but it's pretty hard to misdiagnose. This is a paywall that gives you a few stories per month:

An unvaccinated child contracted tetanus

Quote:
“The patient was in the intensive care unit, in critical condition, for over six weeks,” Guzman-Cottrill said. “The complex and prolonged care led to the high treatment cost. In contrast, the cost of one DTaP dose is somewhere around $24-$30 a dose, and this illness could have been prevented with five doses of DTaP vaccine.”

Notably, physicians counseled the boy’s family to bring the child up to date on all of his vaccinations, as well as receive a follow-up dose of the DTaP vaccine.

His family said no.


Which brings up an interesting point: How do insurance companies deal with the unvaccinated patient who racks up a high bill? I don't think they should allow voluntary non-vaxers policies. Or at least refuse to pay a bill for treatment that could have been avoided by recommended vaccinations unless there is an actual medical reason the patient could not be vaccinated.

Top
#311455 - 03/10/19 03:25 PM Re: Shots [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16818
The core of this problem really is a question of values. Do we value individual "choice" over the public good? This applies in a variety of circumstances, but vaccination is probably the clearest to discuss because the results are both obvious and stark. Unvaccinated children get sick and sometimes die. They risk the lives of others, and we all bear the burden of keeping these diseases in our society. Polio was eliminated; Malaria radically reduced in the United States - because we used to care about the impact in the public. Not so much, now.

Since at least the 70s there has been a growing trend of lauding individualism and ignoring the public good. Washington State has an especially schizophrenic approach to this, being both nurturing of it and and generous in providing public benefits (Howard Schultz-like). We're now reaping what we've sown. Mature societies take care of their own and that includes each other. We're regressing. A small sacrifice for the public good does wonders for everyone.

Top
#311478 - 03/11/19 07:41 PM Re: Shots [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2536
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think the real problem is that we are dealing with diseases which are now rare and considered by many to not be all that serious. Even when we see a grieving mother on tv who didn't allow her child to be vaccinated, which killed the child, it doesn't seem to make a dent in the anti-science crazies. I betcha that if there was a scare about the black plague or leprosy there would be a lot more support for vaccinations.

Being anti-science is, in itself, peculiar. This is particularly true given that our entire civilization is built on science. I betcha all the non-vaxer folks will have one of the current cell phones, for instance. They just take it for granted. Somehow, measles, mumps, etc. are taken for granted until they kill one of their own children. Their fellow anti-vaxxers, however, will even ignore something like that rather than change their minds.

Seems to me this stuff falls under the umbrella of true believers and we seem to be growing a large group of these people who, if nothing else, are crazed.


Edited by jgw (03/11/19 07:44 PM)

Top

Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 34 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
HumblePi, Blenderfox, Flukeake, Contact Form, Jamesmen
6277 Registered Users
A2