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#311426 - 03/08/19 02:03 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16819
House Votes To Condemn Anti-Semitism After Rep. Omar's Comments (npr). Even Representative Omar voted for it. Only the rabid bigot caucus voted against (I'm looking at you, Liz Cheney).

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#311430 - 03/08/19 08:17 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2536
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have already mentioned my antipathy towards Israel and listed some of the reasons. I forgot to mention, however, that they are constantly borrowing money from us and have never, over the years, paid back a single dime (that debt is now in the billions)

Anyway, Omar has, as far as I can tell, never attacked individual or even groups of Jews - Israel, however, is another matter. If you google "jews against israel" there is a lot of info on that one> Then there is AIPAC which represents the state of Israel. That one is bothersome because they are using the money we give them to lobby our congress. I have never understood their power. We used to have a larger Jewish community than we have now. We actually took our tax dollars to actually move Jews from New Jersey, and other states, to Israel (years ago). This being the case those in congress, unconditionally supporting Israel, confuse me as they are unlikely to have many American Jew voters supporting them. This means that AIPAC is doing that. I can go on but .........

The simple fact is that the Republicans are doing what they have vast experience doing - demonizing. The Shame is that sitting Democrats have joined in that Republican effort and THAT is disturbing. One can only wonder?

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#311433 - 03/08/19 08:44 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14008
Loc: Whittier, California
Thomas Friedman weighs in on the Ilhan Omar issue:

Quote:
I’ve been watching with more than a little interest the controversial statements about Israel and the Israel lobby by Ilhan Omar, a freshman Democratic congresswoman from the Fifth District of Minnesota, because it turns out that we have a lot in common — up to a point.


NYT Link
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#311438 - 03/08/19 09:52 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8646
Loc: North San Diego County
Again, the problem is that criticism of Bibi and the Likud Party does not equal antisemitism, much as some conservatives would like you to believe that. It's hogwash meant to make people afraid to say anything for fear they will be labelled as antisemitic.

There are really two solutions possible. A One-State solution, or a Two-State solution. The problem with a One-State solution is you have to make all the Palestinians and other non-Jews living there equal voting citizens of Israel. And Jews might not always be in the majority. The problem with the Two-State solution is that Israel has to give back all the occupied territory and get the settlements out of the West Bank and Golan Heights. Bibi's strategy is to never choose! So we end up with no peace in the Middle East for as long as he is in charge.

That's about to change next week when he gets indicted for corruption. A common end for a conservative politician.

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#311442 - 03/09/19 07:34 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2536
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Last night I watched a CNN Show (fareed Zakaria special) on Saudi Arabia (Sunni). It was not kind to the Saudis. The interesting thing was that Israel is in bed, against Iran (Shia). Basically, the Saudis are not really pals with America nor, I think, the rest of the non Sunni world. We are, basically, on the wrong side of a thousand year old Muslim war. I'm not real enthused about even being involved in that.

I also believe that we shouldn't be on anybody's side in the middle east. I remember Obama trying to get along, with some difficulty, with anybody in the middle east, ANYBODY! (I also remember that he also tried to get along with the Republicans and we all know how that one worked out).

I am not sure what this actually has to do with anything, other than we keep pouring treasure into stuff that we simply should not be messing with as far as I am concerned. Its time we stopped spending billions on the middle east, including Israel and start taking care of little stuff, like highways, dams, schools, healthcare, etc.

Seems reasonable, to me, to spend our money on ourselves and our friends and I don't consider any of the above to be our friends.

Just saying.........


Edited by jgw (03/09/19 07:58 PM)

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#311448 - 03/09/19 11:44 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6741
Loc: Highlands, Tx
We chose Sunni SA because they had oil first. Imagine if we chose Russia first for their oil and supported a communist country. Does it make sense?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#311449 - 03/09/19 11:49 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6741
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Just listened to someone who condemned the Democrats and especially Rep Omar for what she said and they said about specifically allegiance to Israel. He failed to address the substance and rather deflected to the superficial trope.

So my question has been, why does anyone (and let me say this is not directed to Jews in Congress but to conservatives in general, in fact it never crossed my mind that Jews would have a greater allegiance to Israel for religious reasons much as I never thought Pres Kennedy would have any allegiance to the Pope) immediately, unconditionally support Israel for every policy?

So my question remains unanswered by every person who has been on TV in the past few weeks.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#311450 - 03/10/19 01:16 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8646
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm a lot more supportive of Israeli policies when the Likud Party is not running the country. Calling someone antisemitic for not supporting everything BiBi does, is like calling them unAmerican for not supporting everything Trump does.

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#311452 - 03/10/19 02:30 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14008
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm a lot more supportive of Israeli policies when the Likud Party is not running the country. Calling someone antisemitic for not supporting everything BiBi does, is like calling them unAmerican for not supporting everything Trump does.


Israel has very nearly made it a criminal offense to criticize Likud policy, we're still a few millimeters away from criminalizing it here, but we might actually beat Israel to it.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#311457 - 03/10/19 04:06 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16819
I can tell that we're all a bunch of anti-semites, here, because we've expressed concern about the state of Israel and its policies. Well, y'all are, anyway. I'm insulated because "some of my friends are Jews." Isn't that how it works?

I'm concerned about real anti-Semitism, rather than the faux or excessive outrage being expressed. I'm not sure I believe Engel or Lowey or the others were really all THAT upset, rather, I think it was political gamesmanship, and that, frankly, really and truly pisses me off. They like their leadership perks and don't like all this attention being given to upstarts. They got their heads handed to themselves, didn't they? The final resolution was actually not all that bad, but... Here's the rub... it didn't make anti-Semitism "special".

I think this is an historical inflection point - the next generation of leaders is coming into its own sooner rather than later. A LOT of damage has been done, and they have their work cut out for them, but I feel a genuine change in the weather. They're not into this whole "political correctness" argument - on either side. They're far more just about "correctness". Hate is hate no matter who it is directed at. Look at the sin, not the sinner - or sinnee. I don't for a second believe that Omar had hate in her heart when she said what she said. And, frankly, neither do I believe do any of those wailing about it.

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