Current Topics
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by Greger
Today at 12:30 AM
RoundTable for Summer 2020
by pondering_it_all
Today at 12:25 AM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 12:09 AM
Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 10:01 PM
Lists of Trump actions
by Greger
Yesterday at 04:38 AM
Portland. A Turning Point?
by jgw
08/09/20 06:54 PM
What happens if the election doesn't settle due to voting problems?
by pondering_it_all
08/05/20 12:13 AM
Normal Stuff
by pondering_it_all
08/03/20 10:07 PM
A possible solution to rental problems.
by Irked
08/01/20 12:21 AM
Ongoing Slavery
by jgw
07/31/20 05:06 PM
The Departed - 2020
by pondering_it_all
07/29/20 01:33 AM
Seattle had a Riot!
by jgw
07/28/20 06:17 PM
The Boogaloo Bois
by pondering_it_all
07/25/20 08:08 PM
Collections
by Greger
07/24/20 11:08 PM
There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins
by pondering_it_all
07/24/20 09:35 PM
Deranged Trump supporter suspected in murdering son of judge
by Greger
07/24/20 05:54 PM
What is the purpose of Capitalism?
by logtroll
07/24/20 12:07 PM
Chad Wolf
by pdx rick
07/24/20 03:54 AM
why cities won't be able to stop Trump's secret police
by jgw
07/23/20 07:06 PM
Fox News anchor shared fabricated tweet in attempt to smear AOC
by rporter314
07/22/20 03:11 AM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
16978 Topics
301806 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 24 of 50 < 1 2 ... 22 23 24 25 26 ... 49 50 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#311720 - 03/25/19 07:48 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
That's the stuff!!

Let's take that word and define it as we please, then let the morons try to corrupt it.

Americanism - both an economic and political reality (not a theory). The righties will go nuts speaking ill of Americanism!
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#311724 - 03/25/19 10:59 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Sounds like a fairy tale based on a myth.

I haven't seen any evidence of free markets for my entire adult life.

It also looks like you can't have democracy and capitalism in the long run. The trend lines would indicate that anyways.

Looks like capitalism is winning out.

Top
#311729 - 03/26/19 06:44 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 362
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

I haven't seen any evidence of free markets for my entire adult life.

It's nice that there are people who can point out the obvious in our world of lies.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

Top
#311733 - 03/26/19 09:40 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17403
Originally Posted By: logtroll
That's the stuff!!

Let's take that word and define it as we please, then let the morons try to corrupt it.

Americanism - both an economic and political reality (not a theory). The righties will go nuts speaking ill of Americanism!
I so agree.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#311758 - 03/28/19 11:05 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Soil carbon is an important piece of our model.

I have been getting a lot of inquiries in the past several weeks, and the range of applications is very interesting. Yesterday I spoke with a fellow with a new sawmill venture in Dolores, CO. They will be generating a lot of waste (about half of the wood in a log is turned into waste biomass when sawing boards) and they will need to dry the lumber. If they use pyrolyzers instead of biomass burners to make the heat for the kilns they can avoid using fossil fuels and make as much money from the biochar as they will make from the lumber. He was pretty enthused.

Thursday I visited a pecan processor in Las Cruces, NM, who is currently giving away the shells as they are a waste liability. I was looking for a source of shells since we presently can't get any woody biomass from the Forest Service and I happened to ask if they had any process heat needs. As it happens, they buy $4,400 worth of natural gas every month to sterilize the nuts in a hot water bath and to dry them afterwards. I did a pro forma this morning that indicates we could provide them with a biochar+heat pyrolysis system that would replace their NG bill using about 20% of their shell production and make $500,000 in char (at below the rock bottom of current market prices). The ROI on the heat component alone would be 20% annually, and with char sales included the ROI would be 200%. They are kind of excited at the prospect. As it happens, two of the owners are also pecan farmers, so they can use the biochar in their orchards and then market their demonstrated soil improvements to the rest of their supply chain, thus building the market for the char.

So what do you call it - Capitalism, or Socialism - if a person became wealthy as a result of using their time and money to create sustainable local economies where large numbers of people benefitted, where lots of jobs were made, and environmental problems were reversed?

I am calling it Americanism. The Green New Deal needs to adopt this approach.


Are people like AOC even AWARE of your biochar ideas?
How do we make that happen?

You should already be a multi-multi-millionaire or bigger, it's amazing how this isn't growing huge legs already.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Top
#311762 - 03/29/19 01:30 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Are people like AOC even AWARE of your biochar ideas?
How do we make that happen?

You should already be a multi-multi-millionaire or bigger, it's amazing how this isn't growing huge legs already.

One of the most painful lessons of trying to get this thing off the ground is how important marketing is, especially of the overall concept. Selling some machines is not so difficult, but growing the thing to scale without many talented people on board and lots of money is virtually impossible for a couple of "farmer entrepreneurs". We are not very good marketers, except when talking to fellow equipment geeks.

Ironically, there are so many powerful benefit vectors to the broad concept that it is hard to explain it to folks without their eyes glazing over, and they usually end up failing to retain any of it. The easiest entry seems to be through the "free heat" door and barely mentioning the soil carbon and global warming aspects.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#311764 - 03/29/19 05:28 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17055
Loc: Florida
Are you planning on becoming a manufacturer of pyrolizing machinery, Logtroll? Stuff like this?
AliBaba biochar machine.

China might be way ahead of us on this...Maybe they've been practicing Americanism?
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#311765 - 03/29/19 06:19 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Those are all closed retorts and don't do double duty as building and process heat suppliers in widely distributed micro-applications, hence, to wit, and therefore not triple-bottom-line qualifying. The business model for using them would be the standard corporate centralized one that externalizes costs and concentrates wealth, without optimizing the non-monetary benefits.

Maybe that is Chinaism?

As far as I know, we have the only top-lit, up draft, continuous process pyrolyzers in existence - which is a key factor in maximizing triple-bottom-line benefits - Americanism! ThumbsUp
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#311768 - 03/29/19 08:16 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17055
Loc: Florida
Maybe you should sell them to China, at least they recognize a need to process biomass. We're happy just hauling it to the landfill and being done with it...
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#311773 - 03/30/19 02:08 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
When you actually look at the carbon cycle model, with all the compartments and flows, you notice that putting carbon into the soil could actually offset all the fossil fuel burning and more. If we did that to the extent that the soil had before we farmed it to death, CO2 movement into the atmosphere would turn negative. Of course, once we got the soil saturated with carbon, it would rise again but maybe no faster than movement from the atmosphere into the ocean would handle.

We are working with Dr. Johnson to use biochar as a delivery vehicle for microbial soil inoculants.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
Page 24 of 50 < 1 2 ... 22 23 24 25 26 ... 49 50 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 39 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2