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#311720 - 03/25/19 07:48 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8997
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
That's the stuff!!

Let's take that word and define it as we please, then let the morons try to corrupt it.

Americanism - both an economic and political reality (not a theory). The righties will go nuts speaking ill of Americanism!
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#311724 - 03/25/19 10:59 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1394
Sounds like a fairy tale based on a myth.

I haven't seen any evidence of free markets for my entire adult life.

It also looks like you can't have democracy and capitalism in the long run. The trend lines would indicate that anyways.

Looks like capitalism is winning out.

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#311729 - 03/26/19 06:44 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 362
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

I haven't seen any evidence of free markets for my entire adult life.

It's nice that there are people who can point out the obvious in our world of lies.
.
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Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

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#311733 - 03/26/19 09:40 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16702
Originally Posted By: logtroll
That's the stuff!!

Let's take that word and define it as we please, then let the morons try to corrupt it.

Americanism - both an economic and political reality (not a theory). The righties will go nuts speaking ill of Americanism!
I so agree.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#311758 - 03/28/19 11:05 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13655
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Soil carbon is an important piece of our model.

I have been getting a lot of inquiries in the past several weeks, and the range of applications is very interesting. Yesterday I spoke with a fellow with a new sawmill venture in Dolores, CO. They will be generating a lot of waste (about half of the wood in a log is turned into waste biomass when sawing boards) and they will need to dry the lumber. If they use pyrolyzers instead of biomass burners to make the heat for the kilns they can avoid using fossil fuels and make as much money from the biochar as they will make from the lumber. He was pretty enthused.

Thursday I visited a pecan processor in Las Cruces, NM, who is currently giving away the shells as they are a waste liability. I was looking for a source of shells since we presently can't get any woody biomass from the Forest Service and I happened to ask if they had any process heat needs. As it happens, they buy $4,400 worth of natural gas every month to sterilize the nuts in a hot water bath and to dry them afterwards. I did a pro forma this morning that indicates we could provide them with a biochar+heat pyrolysis system that would replace their NG bill using about 20% of their shell production and make $500,000 in char (at below the rock bottom of current market prices). The ROI on the heat component alone would be 20% annually, and with char sales included the ROI would be 200%. They are kind of excited at the prospect. As it happens, two of the owners are also pecan farmers, so they can use the biochar in their orchards and then market their demonstrated soil improvements to the rest of their supply chain, thus building the market for the char.

So what do you call it - Capitalism, or Socialism - if a person became wealthy as a result of using their time and money to create sustainable local economies where large numbers of people benefitted, where lots of jobs were made, and environmental problems were reversed?

I am calling it Americanism. The Green New Deal needs to adopt this approach.


Are people like AOC even AWARE of your biochar ideas?
How do we make that happen?

You should already be a multi-multi-millionaire or bigger, it's amazing how this isn't growing huge legs already.
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#311762 - 03/29/19 01:30 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8997
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Are people like AOC even AWARE of your biochar ideas?
How do we make that happen?

You should already be a multi-multi-millionaire or bigger, it's amazing how this isn't growing huge legs already.

One of the most painful lessons of trying to get this thing off the ground is how important marketing is, especially of the overall concept. Selling some machines is not so difficult, but growing the thing to scale without many talented people on board and lots of money is virtually impossible for a couple of "farmer entrepreneurs". We are not very good marketers, except when talking to fellow equipment geeks.

Ironically, there are so many powerful benefit vectors to the broad concept that it is hard to explain it to folks without their eyes glazing over, and they usually end up failing to retain any of it. The easiest entry seems to be through the "free heat" door and barely mentioning the soil carbon and global warming aspects.
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#311764 - 03/29/19 05:28 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14780
Loc: Florida
Are you planning on becoming a manufacturer of pyrolizing machinery, Logtroll? Stuff like this?
AliBaba biochar machine.

China might be way ahead of us on this...Maybe they've been practicing Americanism?
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311765 - 03/29/19 06:19 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8997
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Those are all closed retorts and don't do double duty as building and process heat suppliers in widely distributed micro-applications, hence, to wit, and therefore not triple-bottom-line qualifying. The business model for using them would be the standard corporate centralized one that externalizes costs and concentrates wealth, without optimizing the non-monetary benefits.

Maybe that is Chinaism?

As far as I know, we have the only top-lit, up draft, continuous process pyrolyzers in existence - which is a key factor in maximizing triple-bottom-line benefits - Americanism! ThumbsUp
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#311768 - 03/29/19 08:16 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14780
Loc: Florida
Maybe you should sell them to China, at least they recognize a need to process biomass. We're happy just hauling it to the landfill and being done with it...
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311773 - 03/30/19 02:08 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8997
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
When you actually look at the carbon cycle model, with all the compartments and flows, you notice that putting carbon into the soil could actually offset all the fossil fuel burning and more. If we did that to the extent that the soil had before we farmed it to death, CO2 movement into the atmosphere would turn negative. Of course, once we got the soil saturated with carbon, it would rise again but maybe no faster than movement from the atmosphere into the ocean would handle.

We are working with Dr. Johnson to use biochar as a delivery vehicle for microbial soil inoculants.
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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