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RoundTable for Fall 2019
by Jeffery J. Haas
Today at 04:00 AM
The Impeachment of Donald trump
by pdx rick
Today at 03:54 AM
What do words mean?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:59 AM
Who owns the land?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:33 AM
The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:16 AM
Organic Socialism
by pondering_it_all
Today at 12:54 AM
And we're off and running!
by Greger
Yesterday at 06:14 PM
Revenge of the Human Scum
by Greger
11/19/19 03:11 AM
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by Jeffery J. Haas
11/18/19 04:12 PM
POLL: Will Trump resign or stay and be impeached?
by perotista
11/16/19 02:25 AM
Apparently Trump wants to buy the UK National Health Service
by pondering_it_all
11/15/19 01:33 AM
Trump required to admit guilt in using Trump Foundation as piggy-bank
by jgw
11/14/19 09:23 PM
Yet another Trump scam
by pdx rick
11/09/19 06:46 PM
Why don't the Dems fight back?
by jgw
11/08/19 09:54 PM
Never-Before-Seen Trump Tax Documents Show Major Inconsistencies
by pondering_it_all
11/06/19 05:03 AM
Ohio GOP charged with distributing phony sample ballots in election fraud
by pondering_it_all
11/06/19 05:00 AM
US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years
by jgw
11/05/19 08:22 PM
Republicans are publicly spreading the name of purported Ukraine whistle-blower
by pondering_it_all
11/05/19 04:48 AM
Often more accurate than polls
by pondering_it_all
11/05/19 04:29 AM
Public option vs Medicare for All
by pondering_it_all
11/05/19 04:27 AM
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#311776 - 03/30/19 06:52 PM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2616
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been watching the TV and the Democratic response and am a bit bewildered. The AG says he will have the report ready by the middle of April (about 2 weeks). That seems fair given they have to vet a 400+ report. The house wants everything right now - they will probably get that as the groups wanting it are, in theory, okay for secret stuff. But, those whining to see everything are not likely to succeed and are not helping. I also hope, when they get the AG to interview, that they watch their mouths and not behave as the Republicans, that's true also, for Mueller, should he come and testify.

I am simply not convinced that either of those men are enemies of the Dems.

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#311809 - 04/03/19 07:41 AM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14443
Loc: Whittier, California
Nobody ever took four hundred pages to say that a person was innocent.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#311810 - 04/03/19 03:06 PM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17160
Originally Posted By: jgw
I have been watching the TV and the Democratic response and am a bit bewildered. The AG says he will have the report ready by the middle of April (about 2 weeks). That seems fair given they have to vet a 400+ report. The house wants everything right now - they will probably get that as the groups wanting it are, in theory, okay for secret stuff. But, those whining to see everything are not likely to succeed and are not helping. I also hope, when they get the AG to interview, that they watch their mouths and not behave as the Republicans, that's true also, for Mueller, should he come and testify.

I am simply not convinced that either of those men are enemies of the Dems.
I am as anxious as anyone to see the report, but I agree that a couple of more weeks is not the end of the world. As for "enemies of the Dems" - well, I don't. Mueller is a straight shooter, no question, and I think his response will be measured and accurate. Barr is a political animal through and through and I have absolutely no doubt he is doing everything in his power to protect the President and the party over the interests of the country.

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#311811 - 04/04/19 12:23 AM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15667
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Mueller is a straight shooter, no question


A great big platter of "No Collusion, just like you said sir!"

If he were a straight shooter he wouldn't be a Republican. I'm guessing he voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and will again in 2020. It's how the conservative hive mind works.

You think I'm full of crap, but let's turn this telescope around and pretend that Barack Obama had committed even a fraction of the things Trump has done. And let's pretend that Mueller was investigating Obama.....

I speculate that the outcome would have been different. So yeah maybe he's a straight shooter, but he might not aim as carefully when it's one of his own in the sights.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311813 - 04/04/19 05:40 AM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8886
Loc: North San Diego County
Plenty of Republicans don't consider Trump "one of their own".

Anonymous GOP Congressman: "He gets up in the morning, he sh*ts on Twitter, he sh*ts on us, he sh*ts on his staff, and then he hits golf balls."

Another: “If we're going to lose because of him, we might as well impeach the motherf**ker. Take him out with us and let Mike [Pence] take over.”

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#311819 - 04/04/19 07:29 PM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2616
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This whole thing is a great mystery! For instance, Mueller has presented his report and, in theory is done. However, Mueller's grand jury continues to work on 'things'. Wonders never cease! Mueller is done, Mueller is now 'helping' the AG ready his report for prime time and Mueller's grand jury continues to be busy, busy, busy.

Now add in that there are any number of other federal investigations into Trump this and thats. Then there are the investigations of the Democratic House - basically, virtually all 20 house committees.

I remain convinced that every one of these things is going to turn over some kind of a rock for the rest of us to marvel at. What amazes me is the lunacy of the Republican public servants who, true believers or to save their jobs, continue to actively support Jackass. I don't believe for a minute that Trump can survive this onslaught yet those who support him are so craven and afraid of his bombast that they continue to aggressively support him with nary a thought on the simple fact they will, eventually, have to defend their ongoing support to their voters (and, hopefully, will fail miserably). My concern about this is that their voters are so ensorcelled and ignorant, never having been exposed to Democrats and fixated on Fox News, haven't the capacity to act in their own best interest.

I also believe that 2020 elections are the Democrat's to lose. I think my main worry is the simple fact that the Dems have proven, over time, that they can not only lose but spectacularly lose. This will continue to remain my concern until ALL actually start to fight back and willing to actually take the battle to the other side. I don't mean just the candidates but the so-called lefties of TV who seem to be more concerned with bringing on those from the right to interminably spew their poison and then, apparently, being concerned with 'fairness', never call them on the obvious lies, etc. thus spewed.

I guess I should add that whilst my pronouncements seem absolute I am also a believer in "exceptions that prove the rule".


Edited by jgw (04/05/19 05:45 PM)

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#311822 - 04/05/19 12:16 AM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14443
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger

I speculate that the outcome would have been different. So yeah maybe he's a straight shooter, but he might not aim as carefully when it's one of his own in the sights.


Just consider that Trump has been using Mueller, the FBI and all of law enforcement as a punching bag for the last two and a half years.
I am not so sure that Mueller is so in love with Trump.
The man has sullied the very concept of law and order, and let's not forget...Trump IS an organized crime boss. Maybe not Cosa Nostra Italian style, but he's a mobbed up boss, and Mueller made his bones taking down the Capo di Tutti Capi.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#311823 - 04/05/19 01:04 AM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15667
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Plenty of Republicans don't consider Trump "one of their own".

Those are old quotes, PIA. He owns them all now, lock stock and pork barrel. The Republican Party is little more than a subsidiary of the Trump Organization.

87% of Republicans approve of the job Trump is doing. Mueller is a Republican and is likely in that number. He could have brought Trump down. Either he chose not to or Trump is innocent. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that Trump is innocent.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311824 - 04/05/19 01:18 AM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15667
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Trump IS an organized crime boss.

Agreed. And it just so happens that Mueller is working for him now.
Cohen flipped. Meuller didn't. He kept that investigation on the straight and narrow and delivered the results that were expected by the Boss.

Yall can defend the honor of Republicans all you want. As far as I'm concerned they have none.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311825 - 04/05/19 06:49 PM Re: The Mueller Report [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8886
Loc: North San Diego County
I don't think exactly that happened. I think Mueller is operating in the Justice Department's "can't indict a sitting President" space. So he presented all the evidence about obstruction of justice for congress to use if they want to impeach Trump. From that perspective, that's where prosecution for those crimes belongs.

We are now hearing that some members of Mueller's team are unhappy with Barr's summary letter, since they already wrote summaries. I think thus is probably because Barr only got the job because he said that Presidents can't obstruct justice, and there is good evidence in the whole report for obstruction of justice charges. Barr has not released those summaries from the report most likely because they say that the President should be charged.

hitsfan

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