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#311886 - 04/12/19 04:20 PM We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body
Golem Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3862
Loc: Orange County, California, USA
Jeffrey Kluger
Time
April 11, 2019

Quote:
Traveling in space looks like all kinds of fun, and in a lot of respects, it is—provided you can overlook a few downsides. There’s the loss of muscle mass, for one thing. Then there’s the decalcification of bones and the stress on the heart and the damage to the eyes and the changes in the immune system and the disruption of the genome and an actual shortening of your overall life expectancy.

It was, in part, to study all of those biological problems that astronaut Scott Kelly spent 340 days in space from 2015 to 2016 (chronicled in TIME’s Emmy-nominated series A Year in Space). Now, just over three years after his return, the first tranche of studies into Kelly’s off-world marathon has been published in Science. The results are mixed — Kelly fared better than expected on some measures and worse on others. The overall conclusion is less ambiguous: space travel is exceedingly hard on the human body, and we have a lot to learn before we’re ready to start living on the moon or Mars.

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#311892 - 04/12/19 10:11 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
No, not space travel: Most of the bad effects are because of microgravity. We have no idea of the moon's or Mar's gravity is enough to alleviate those effects. But any space colony could rotate to create any simulated gravity we need.

The other source of possible health problems is the increased radiation in space. But with proper shielding, on a spacecraft, the moon, or Mars, that problem could be removed. The space station is NOT a very good shield because all the parts have to be light weight. A Mars or lunar colony would use underground spaces that would have great shielding. Any long-term space colony could use lunar or asteroid material as shielding.

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#311924 - 04/16/19 01:48 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Sad, isn't it, that the human race probably won't survive to see those things.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311926 - 04/16/19 04:38 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
All it needs is will and we could do it really quick. If some nation decided to devote a big chunk of change, they could create a lunar colony with existing technology. Hell, we went to the moon 50 years ago! Just think of the progress we have made since 1969. Or if there was financial incentive for it, some corporation would do it. Like maybe that corporation that was talking about capturing a platinum-rich asteroid last year.

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#311943 - 04/17/19 01:24 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Too much money, too little return. And probably not much time either.

Twelve years, the experts say, until until global warming becomes unstoppable. I suspect our fate is already sealed. The moon and Mars are unlikely to save us. Maybe, if we pull off a miracle and save this planet, in a few hundred years we might be able to address interplanetary travel again.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311967 - 04/19/19 01:23 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
12 years until we enter an unstoppable warm period. Not 12 years and everybody dies. Civilization will not stop because we are warmer. There will be a lot of dislocation as some areas become unlivable, but other areas become arable. Canada, Siberia, Scandinavia, and Argentina could actually benefit. Less wheat and more corn in US agriculture, but way more wheat in Canada. Florida will be all gators and skeeters: Sorry about that.

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#311968 - 04/19/19 02:41 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
You forgot the snakes. But it's already like that.

We could mitigate climate change AND explore space.

But there would need to be a political will to move forward in dramatic leaps and bounds. I just don't see it happening.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311970 - 04/19/19 09:35 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm predicting that with more swamp, the gators will eat most of the snakes. Tastes like chicken, you know! And I've been to a gator show: Gators love chicken.

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#311974 - 04/19/19 08:24 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Pythons are eating up everything in the everglades including the gators. We haven't got 'em here yet but it's only a matter of time.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311980 - 04/20/19 04:01 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm sure it's a contest for top of the food chain. Big pythons eat small gators, and big gators eat small pythons. But you are right: Once a python gets it's mouth over a gator's snout, it's all over for Mr. Gator. They have terrific bite pressure but I heard their jaw-opening muscles are so weak a human can hold their mouth shut...If he's a fool, of course.

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#311985 - 04/20/19 03:22 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9324
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#311994 - 04/21/19 03:18 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
I would think the pythons can just stick to eating baby alligators and eventually wipe out the population. Or at least make alligators much more scarce as a predator-prey equilibrium is achieved. Of course, alligators are not the only possible meal for pythons. As long as there is something they can eat, their population will grow. But for that matter, about 6-7% of baby alligators are eaten by big alligators, so the life of a baby alligator has never been carefree.

Boy, we really have gotten off topic!

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#312000 - 04/21/19 06:58 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
The pythons are literally eating everything. Not just the baby alligators but the possums coons birds and squirrels that the alligators usually eat. It's an ecological nightmare.

And as temperatures(and seas) rise it's a nightmare that will creep northward and westward.

California, on the other hand, will go the way of the Saharan wastelands in Africa. What doesn't burn will be scorched by drought as its inhabitants flee inland and northward. I never hear much about Pacific sea level rise so I guess that doesn't affect the western ports and cities as much as it does the east. It's going to be messy and expensive here.

I've got nothing against exploring space. But mining asteroids and building colonies on the moon or Mars are as far fetched as they ever were. If we spent enough money and resources we could do it but it would never be economically sustainable. We can't even put colonies under the ocean where help is only a mile away...we can't even clean up the trash pit we've turned our oceans into.

The Billionaires Race to Space™ is nothing more than a race to get worldwide satellite internet system into place so they can mine the working class for more ca$h.

Soft squishy people have no place in space anyway. Robots will own that domain.

There now, I think I've brought it back to topic.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312008 - 04/22/19 04:08 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, I think the moon is an easier environment than a deep sea colony. The pressure difference between inside and out is only 15 PSI. Under water, it's 15 PSI every 30 feet, and you definitely don't want to build an undersea colony in the first 30 feet because of waves and ships. An undersea colony wold also be very easy for terrorists to sabotage. A lunar colony would be much harder.

BTW, much of California is hundreds of feet above current sea level. If you raised sea level a couple of hundred feet, we would have an inland sea in the central valley, but only around Sacramento. Cities to the South are too high to be affected. LA would have another inland sea, but only a small one: The official elevation of LA is 285 feet. San Diego would have an inundated Mission Valley, but much of the non-downtown part of the city is up on mesas.

I doubt we would become more desert because of the inland seas. The California deserts are all east of the mountain ranges and are very lightly populated. They might become even hotter in the summer. They already reach 120 F some days.

Raise sea level 200 feet and Florida is almost all gone.

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#312016 - 04/22/19 07:24 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Raise sea level 200 feet and pretty much everything is gone. Economies, governments, civilizations. Your lunar colony will be a handful of dessicated corpses as supplies fail to arrive. And that's just in the first 20 feet of sea level rise!

I'm sure California will still be "the place you oughta be" no matter how bad global warming might get. All those wonderful mountains and inland seas will turn it into a virtual Utopia! Just keep your forests raked.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312018 - 04/23/19 02:17 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9324
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Actually, I think the moon is an easier environment than a deep sea colony.

Yeah, but think of the commute...
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#312021 - 04/23/19 05:01 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, it's probably a one-way migration. Once you go, you and all your kids will probably never come back. Not just because of the expense, but also the lack of the muscles necessary for 1G. You can grow your own food. Any Earth technology can be transplanted, so they would not be all that dependent on Earth. They would have plentiful energy because the moon gets more ensolation than Earth. Oxygen and Nitrogen (and also all the other minerals they need) from the lunar regolith. Water from polar ice deposits. The one thing they would need to import is Carbon. Probably not a lot of that in the lunar rocks. But I know some guys with lots of Carbon they want to get rid of cheap, nearby.

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#312033 - 04/23/19 08:41 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Oh yes! Let's go live in caves on the moon! Where we will become weak as kittens and never see the light of day! The kids will love it there!
No water, no air and sure death just millimeters away.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312034 - 04/23/19 10:23 PM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9324
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Other than the adventure of it, for those who may want that kind of adventure, I don't see the usefulness of colonizing off-Earth climes. If the thought is that we will need to escape the planet because humans ruined it, well...

I've always been more attracted to putting my efforts into fixer-uppers and restorations than in breaking new ground.
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#312037 - 04/24/19 08:50 AM Re: We Finally Learned What a Year in Space Did to Astronaut Scott Kelly's Body [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8734
Loc: North San Diego County
There is something to be said for not putting all your eggs in one basket. If a big meteor headed for the Earth, we really could do nothing to stop it. It could be a mass extinction event, unless we have some humans someplace other than Earth. As for your depiction of lunar colony life, I think you are thinking way too small.

Not caves but rather man-made domes a mile across, filled with all sorts of vegetation. Plenty of air, water, and food, with no pollution of any kind. Even the light would be as bright as sunlight during the day, but with no sunburning UV. Best of all, you could strap on a pair of wings and fly. They could even have individual LED pixels on the ceilings so they could show the view outside during the night period, like the Las Vegas downtown aerial light show. They could project 5000 K bluish sky during the day. It would be hard to tell you were in a dome. And of course, there would be many of those domes, so you could visit other domes or go to live there. They could even have different climates. One a beach and lake dome, one a winter dome filled with snow so people could ski, many temperate domes, many 4 season domes, many tropical domes.

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