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#312139 - 05/04/19 03:53 AM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8866
Loc: North San Diego County
There is a process, and that process takes time. If you rush into things, when it ends up in court you lose. If they ask Barr to come testify and he ignores them, they can issue as subpoena and when the administration takes that to court the Democrats are in a much stronger legal position because they followed the process.

Your impatience with the process does not mean they are doing nothing.

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#312142 - 05/04/19 07:50 PM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2608
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I tend to doubt the process thing although, if true, it gets pretty strange. Pelosi got on tv to announce "he lied and broke the law" (forget the exact words). She did, however, say it was a crime. This is like a cop catching somebody breaking the law and saying to the miscreant "you broke the law, have a nice day". We were also gifted with Nadlers efforts. He asked Barr to come and testify and Barr declined (he waited a week for a response), then he subpoenaed Barr and Barr ignored him (he waited another week then threatened to have a hearing to hold him in contempt if he doesn't respond in another week). I can't wait to see what's next, its kinda like a train that is almost out of the station but not really. (I may also have added a week that wasn't true).

Anyway, apparently the House Dems are planning to do something like this with every one of their possible charges (there are many). This means that, apparently they are going to move, clearly and bravely, to have a genuine pile of law suits. This shouldn't take much over 2 years in which case its all going to be moot or a complete disaster.

I am having a real problem with this stuff. As far as I can tell the problem is that the Administration has decided that certain congressional rights can be ignored just because. There has been a lot of talk about "constitutional crises" by talking heads. I actually don't really understand it all. However, it seems to be that this just may be an instance of that. If so, and the Dems are not just exercising their jaws, nor is jackass, then what we seem to have is just that - a constitutional crisis. Since the house Democrats seem to be the ones with the problem I would think that they could list the problems and file something with the Supreme court that could, then, state clearly just what rights the congress has in these instances.

I think the 'problem' might be that both houses of congress might have to agree to this. I actually have no idea. In either case I think that somebody should make this stuff clear so we will know who is spinning their wheels and who is actually doing something. Right now, apparently, the House Dems can, for instance charge a member of the adminstration with lying, or charge a me ber of the administration with contempt. The problem there, is that then the Justice Department takes over and the current AG has made it pretty clear is that such will go no further.

Anyway, we seem to have a genuine mess that is not going to be solved without the Supreme Court stepping up and giving guidance. As far as I can see its the only game in town that's likely to work?

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#312144 - 05/04/19 10:18 PM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15629
Loc: Florida
SCOTUS doesn't just "step up" and do things.

It has to come up through the lower courts first.

And I wouldn't be real anxious to drag Trump issues before the current conservative Supreme Court. They might not rule the way we think they should.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312145 - 05/05/19 04:04 AM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8866
Loc: North San Diego County
The House committee heads have to power to charge someone with Contempt of Congress. They don't need Senate input, and they don't even need a whole House vote. They can send the House Sergeant at Arms to arrest that person and imprison them. They decide when to let that person go, but the contempt charge would expire December 31st 2020, when the current Congress ends. They can also impose any fine they care to, including a fine per day for failure to appear. This contempt charge is not subject to a Presidential pardon.

The only problem is they don't actually have a jail! But I'm sure they could contract with one of our many private prison companies. I strongly suggest they start using that power, or else Trump is just going to continue on his path to dictatorship. Some suggestions? All of Trump's White House staff and cabinet officers. Also his kids. Let's see how he likes sitting there in the White House all alone.
_________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

John Steinbeck

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#312158 - 05/06/19 07:47 PM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2608
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
As far as I can tell if the house jerks the administration into court, and the house doesn't like the decision of the court, then the house can go direction to the supreme court. I am not convinced that the congress can't go directly to the supremes with a request either. The Supremes then can take the case not not. Its more likely they would than wouldn't. There was a recent case wherein a lower federal court took a case and fast tracked it notifying parties it was ready, right now, to hear that case. My point is that if the house is going to do it then they should get on with it. The argument that the Supremes are too too political, in one direction or the other, doesn't mean they shouldn't try as that would settle much all by itself.

I just read someplace that if the congress convicts of contempt then they can sentence to a federal prison for 1 year and levy a 100,000.00 fine on the miscreant.

Right now the house is simply blowing a lot of smoke (actually for almost the last 2 weeks). Its REALLY time they fish or cut bait. Their actions tend to suggest they have the authority and the right and that needs to be settled as quickly as possible. If they don't then they will be seen as bloviating weenies. As far as I am concerned they are verging on that one right now.


Edited by jgw (05/06/19 07:52 PM)

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#312164 - 05/08/19 06:16 AM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8866
Loc: North San Diego County
On Wednesday, the New York assembly will vote on a bill requiring the state tax authority to supply the state tax returns of any individual to three US House committees upon request. The bill's author says he has the votes in the mostly Democratic state assembly, and the governor says he will sign the bill into law. In New York, you have to include a copy of your federal return as part of your state return, so the three committees will be getting state and federal returns. The state of New York keeps returns for 10 years.

So fat-ass and all those Republicans who go on the news saying the Democrats will never get Trump's returns can go pound sand. This is the gigantic flaw in the Trump strategy: He lived and did business in a very Democratic state and most New Yorkers know he is a con man. I expect the state of New York will be doing much worse to Trump. They are not bound by a Justice Department opinion.

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#312171 - 05/08/19 05:40 PM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2608
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
When that happens its gonna get interesting real quick. They will actually have to go back more than 8 years to see the Russian infusion of big bucks. After that he will be done. I am also counting on what I consider a simple fact - Jackass is not the brightest mind out there.

My fond hope is that they nail him big time, with facts. There are already several folks wondering what country, without extradition treaties, he will try to escape to in an effort to escape prison.


Edited by jgw (05/08/19 05:41 PM)

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#312193 - 05/12/19 07:27 AM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8866
Loc: North San Diego County
Argentina is pretty nice: My old neighbors moved there and bought a vineyard. Pretty cool if you have enough money to buy an estate and staff it. Good political climate for old Nazis and such right wing folks. No history of socialism. Much better climate than Russia. Lots of Italians, so decent food.

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#312197 - 05/13/19 07:00 PM Re: congress and the administration [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2608
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Apparently the house can also actually fine somebody up to 25,000.00 per day. That might get somebody's attention. There is growing belief that the house is going to stop playing nice. They can also send out the Sergeant of Arms, with the capital police and also use the capital prison facilities.

All in all they have the law on their side to do these things and don't need to deal with the law, other than their own bestowed by the constitution. I am not even sure, unless the administration went directly to the supremes, that the courts would even be able to do anything against congress.

Probably wrong, not a law dog............

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#312228 - 05/16/19 07:06 AM Re: congress and the administration [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17150
Our first indication of whether the courts stool function will come this or next week, when Judge Mehta rules on Trump's ridiculous claim made in court yesterday that the President is not subject to law. No, seriously, that what they said. Then, today, White House counsel rejects Democratic efforts to investigate Trump (CBS). The full letter is available here. It is utterly appalling.

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