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#312204 - 05/14/19 06:36 PM war and other stuff
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2458
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Seems that Jackass is preparing to goto war with Iran. Also seems Bolton is firmly in charge of getting it done. We should all remember this is the guy who arguably gifted us with the Iraq war to save the Iraqis. Only about 500,000 civilians were killed and it was also arguably the most corrupt national undertaking in our history. We started that one with a lie, tortured, stole and raped and pillaged. Good times for all! Now Mr Bolton wants to do it RIGHT! Since basically any and all allies (except for our real pals, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Russia) are against this but then what do they know? Its not enough that we are already participating in the Yemen thing (disease, pestilence, bombs, children dying of starvation, etc. You know, generally considered the very worst of them) we also have to destroy them bad Iranians who are always out there trying to protect them evil barely human Shia. We should be thankful that we have, finally, picked a side in that thousand year old Muslim war between Shia and Sunni. Given our modern propensity to keep our armies blooded this one will be a dandy.

Anybody who has forgotten the Iraq war should take a look at a couple of the congressional reports (even the Republicans couldn't spin this one).

This is, however, not quite enough. We are also now in an all out trade war with China and are threatening any allies we have left (Europe, etc) that dare trade with who they want to trade with because we know better. This one will get more interesting as time passes. I am awaiting the next auction by the treasury when the Chinese choose to not participate until the interest rate goes up. By that time we will already be paying more on the interest than we spend on our military. If the Dems actually take over in 2002 any of the promises they are currently making will be impossible to fulfill because there will be no money left. If the Chinese also decide to sell our bonds Its actually gonna be a bit worse. Basically a depression which will make 2008 look like a picnic. We will be, basically, broke, hugely in debt (the current administration is well on its way to add another 4 trillion to the debt by the time they are done).

All in all we are, basically, screwed. Afghanistan has cost us between 1 and 2 trillion dollars (google "ongoing costs of afghanistan war"). Had we spent that much on Cancer and infrastructure both could have been fixed easily. Thank goodness our elected saved us from those kinds of things.

OH, also add in a student loan debt of approximately 1.5 trillion dollars. Then also consider that these debts cannot be bankrupted away. This is debt that 44 million kids get to pack around for the rest of their lives. Many of these also attended them for profit schools that screwed over students and jackass has made sure they get to pay back the money anyway. So, that means that we have created a substantial number of really pissed off, screwed over, folks as well.

Gotta say, we have all worked, very hard, to get into a bit of a mess. The interesting thing is that its all ongoing. Even if the Dems win in 2002 its not gonna make a whole bunch of difference, regardless of promises. Throw in climate change and I suspect its gonna get real interesting.

As usual - I wish us all luck.

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#312211 - 05/15/19 02:00 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1403
Weren't you in support of military intervention in Venezuela, JGW?
If so, could you please explain how that would be O.K. but Iran would not be?
I'm confused by your positions is all....

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#312214 - 05/15/19 04:02 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14809
Loc: Florida
Has Trump really got the balls to start a war?

We know he's foolish enough, but does he actually have the balls?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#312215 - 05/15/19 05:42 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2458
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Chunk - I have never been for military intervention in Venezuela or any other place.

Greger - With Jackass I don't think balls are in it all. The man just doesn't have the capacity for that kind of thing. Given the his degree of thoughtlessness I am not convinced he even thinks before he does whatever. He is, after all, the man who knows everything, has all the money in the world, handsome and beloved of every beauty in the entire world! If you question any of the foregoing I would suggest you just ask the man - he will set you (and everybody else) right! <G>

The talking heads now say that Bolton is planning all of this without input from Trump. Its kinda interesting and just may be true. I remember when the current governor of Ohio, Kachich said that he was offered the vice president position and would be able to also run everything. Even then Jackass didn't have much interest in actually functioning as president. I think most of what he does depends on who is pulling his chain that day.

Off the subject but..... If we still had the draft we would not have 18 yearlong wars and republican administrations would not be so eager to do war and political division would be a lot harder to promulgate. When Jackass hired Bolton there was an outcry against him over his predilection for war. Turns out those who cried out were exactly right. Since I don't believe Jackass does anything on his own (except tweat) this also means there are other war hawks in his administration.

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#312218 - 05/15/19 06:21 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1403
O.K. Glad to know. Sorry for the confusion or incorrectly inferring you might have been for it.

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#312219 - 05/15/19 10:30 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1403
Originally Posted By: jgw
If we still had the draft we would not have 18 yearlong wars and republican administrations would not be so eager to do war and political division would be a lot harder to promulgate.


I mostly agree with that opinion. Wasn't the all volunteer force the brainchild of the beloved, by the far and center right parties, Alan Greenspan im the 70's?
I recall seeing his congressional testimony for the idea though I cant find the video on youtube for the moment.

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#312246 - 05/16/19 09:16 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2458
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Our current army was started with Nixon. At the time he wanted a 'professional' army. There were cries that we were created an army of mercenaries so, now, we have a professional army. Actually little changed except pay for the military was raised so that they all weren't on welfare anymore.

I have been against Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, anything in the middle east, Afghanistan, Iraq - the whole damned bunch. These days, of course, they are all about politics. If we don't like how somebody does something we 'help' them and thousands die. As far as I am concerned the politicians kills a grandson amongst other things. I have watched us abandon any number of fighters that helped us with this stuff. In vietnam we abandoned whole tribes to the commies, in Iraq we abandoned thousands who helped us, it just goes on and on.

Jackass is just proving its all politics. The Saudis, Russians, etc. bought and paid for him and he is doing exactly what they want insofar as Iran is concerned. After all, they are all still buying stuff from him, filling his hotels, etc. so its the least he can do. I don't think there is really any doubt about what is going on but, again, apparently it continues, unabated, and the rest of our elected class are simply incapable to putting an end to it.

Here is a link about the All Volunteer Army:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9195.html

If we have any later generations they are certain to look back on this one with hatred and disdain - with very good reason.

I am, incidentally, a supporter of the draft. It unites us, and sets a tone we have been missing for a very long time.

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#312248 - 05/17/19 05:04 AM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13679
Loc: Whittier, California
The problem with an all-volunteer army is most of the public don't actually have very much skin in the game, and voluntarism also creates a tribe, a kind of "military class" in our society instead of doing a very ordinary and innocuous job of mainstreaming it as just another part of the family.
This is a form of balkanization, not good.

Of course the draft puts other issues to the fore, professionals, career military that is, like to talk of draftees as sometimes less motivated, or so I hear.
But with skin in the game, Americans will likely have much stronger opinions, and Congress will likely be pressured to take back their war powers, resume their role together with the Executive Branch.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#312250 - 05/17/19 01:25 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1403
It looks to me like Milton Freidman and Alan Greenspan helped sell the idea to congress, giving it an economic argument at a perfect time for that argument to be made.

Seems like they stole the idea from the mother country, Great Britain:
Provide the services of professional army, for a fee, to corporations managing their colonial economic territories. East India Co, Hudson Bay Co., etc...
Unless I missed something here, that seems to be the model that we now operate under.

I've yet to see how killing people in Syria, Libya or maybe Venezuela gets the water fixed in Flynt, the trains running right in NYC, or medical care facilities built in rural Iowa.

You have to admire the cunningness of the rich. They have it all now. The media, military and both political parties are now there's to control.



Edited by chunkstyle (05/17/19 02:03 PM)

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#312251 - 05/17/19 01:29 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1403
I would also add that Corporations no longer even have to pay a fee for military services rendered as they did in the previous colonial period. They've now externalized that costs to the tax payers. Not a bad couple decades work if you can get it.

The question is why anyone would continue to support such a system by voting for candidates that have proven to be in service to this system?

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