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#312259 - 05/17/19 06:12 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
One of the main problems with the All Volunteer Army (AVA) is that it makes it easy for many, when somebody gets killed or maimed, to remind everybody that they "volunteered" so its on them. Its kinda like the argument about personal information held by others. Its your personal information and you gave it to them!

Its the new, modern, American logic, ie. blame the victim! Yet another way to take care of that pesky 'responsibility' thing.


Edited by jgw (05/17/19 06:18 PM)

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#312262 - 05/17/19 09:00 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 444
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
That is the second problem with a volunteer military. The first and main problem is it makes it easy to enter into un-needed conflicts and the casualties are easy to hide. With a drafted military, the family is very aware that Johnny is in the military and will question the leaders as to why is the military being sent to fight and die. Remember Vietnam, we had a drafted military and look at the ruckus raised.

Do not get me wrong, I believe in a very strong military. I believe that sometimes it is a national imperative to commit the military and to make some place else a glass parking lot. But a Professional Military and a Democrocy do not go together; the rich escape service and the poor die.
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#312264 - 05/17/19 10:56 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Yeah...sorta...maybe?

I don't feel like anybody who doesn't want to be in the military should be in the military.

Ummmm....and Donald Trump was drafted but didn't serve because he was rich. So it doesn't exactly appear to level the playing field between rich and poor draftees.

I also believe we need to maintain a strong military. Ours would still be strong if we spent a quarter of what we spend now.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312270 - 05/18/19 05:55 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Ujest Shurly]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
That is basically why I am for the draft. There is no way to hide the problems.

As a possibly interesting sidelight to all of this is the American penchant to use actual mercinaries as well as their own Army. This one pretty much flies under the radar but talk to anybody who has been there about that one. When those guys get killed its just "x number of deaths", or "other forces", etc.

Oh, mercenaries also don't have to adhere to the same set of rules that our troops need to so, I have been told, they tend to act out. Its a deal where our army may be blamed but it wasn't them.

America, I believe, was designed to have a citizen army. When they say "all volunteer" they, basically, mean anybody who is qualified. It used to be if a foreigner signed up for the army, did his, her, stint, they could also apply for citizenship. Now we are throwing them out of the country as soon as they leave the military.

Another example, I think, of creating more that hate us?

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#312273 - 05/18/19 10:10 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 444
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Greger, I did not include my caveats in my above post.

Some of them are:

All males and females would be subject to National Service.

No deferments: none for college, none for bone spurs, flat feet, or any other correctable physical defect. If the prospect is on the Autism Spectrum they would be exempt from the military but not other national services. There are other medical and physical exemptions I support, but the list is to long to go into here.

Term of Service 3/4 years. Would earn credits and dollars towards your degree, available upon Honorable Discharge. Any funds personally contributed would be refunded upon discharge under less than honorable or lower conditions.

Standard education (like a GI Bill): available to anyone completing service with an Honorable Discharge from the military or other national services.

If the degree program you are in is for teaching, or medical or dental you can begin your service by serving part-time in your degree field and during summer breaks for a salary equal to that of an E5 and remain in college. Service to be completed after graduation.

etc.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (05/18/19 10:13 PM)
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#312279 - 05/19/19 05:17 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Ujest Shurly]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Excellent!!!!!!!!!!! (GREAT idea!)

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#312299 - 05/21/19 11:52 AM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
Y'all are nuts!
A demobilized army is what gave congress control over the executives war fancy.
It's what's kept any meaningful progressive action from being implemented by the enormous costs born by the citizenry.
It's the largest single contributor of green house gas emissions.
It's socialized fascism.
It's fascists character bleeds into and influences the civilian cultere.

I can go on but why would anyone want a 'strong' military. Aren't you worried we might get a lunatic president someday who has Napoleonic tendencies?

Oh.... wait a minute...

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#312300 - 05/21/19 01:31 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
Like I said above...about a quarter of the military spending we have right now should give us all the military we ever need.

I think it's ridiculous that some think the lives of all children coming of age should be handed over to the military(or other government program) for indoctrination.

"Service to Your Country" is bullsh*t. My country should be serving me, not the other way around.

Our country should be serving us. It is not the governments job to make men and women of our young folks. How bout we educate them properly so they can go out and do what needs to be done in the world without the government calling the shots.

I know a lot of vets, most suffered for their service and gained nothing in return besides a few benefits and some dicey healthcare.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312303 - 05/21/19 09:14 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Chunk - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about........


Edited by jgw (05/21/19 09:21 PM)

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#312307 - 05/22/19 02:38 AM Re: war and other stuff [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
I think he doesn't like the draft.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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