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#312212 - 05/15/19 03:49 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16258
Loc: Florida
Quote:
We can easily build fire-proof houses and people are starting to do it in California. That removes a lot of the risk from wildfires.


Easily? Housing prices soared here when codes changed to build windproof houses....Wasn't much help when a cat 5 hurricane slammed into the panhandle.
Housing prices are already through the roof in California. I hear tales of folks without homes as insurance proved insufficient. If your house and land burned to the ground tomorrow could you "easily" rebuild?

Easy is a great word when you don't have to actually do it yourself.

You and science probably have easy answers for the next drought too...? The next earthquake? The next flood?
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#312216 - 05/15/19 05:50 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2890
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Does anybody remember the concrete flyash sprayon houses? It was developed by somebody in gov who figured it would be a good way to build houses quickly and cheaply. Often what happened to that one. Anyway, houses made of that material would be fireproof and windproof. There used to be builders who were using it. Wonder what happened....

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/fly-ash-applications-844761

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#312222 - 05/16/19 01:42 AM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9290
Loc: North San Diego County
That's what stucco is: Cheaper than wood siding and completely fire-proof. People just build with flammable stuff because it looks nicer. Stucco is cheap. Fire shutters are cheap. Composition singles are cheaper than wood shakes. Fine metal screens on all your vents costs next to nothing.

The ONLY reason the Camp fire burned the whole town of Paradise is they built with wood, they built too close together, and they had flammable vegetation too close to their houses. Lots of trees were left unburned, but embers from structures ignited shake roofs downwind. The medical staff and patients actually survived by moving into a fire-proof house!

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#312223 - 05/16/19 02:42 AM Re: end is nigh [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16258
Loc: Florida
Stucco on a stick frame house is nothing like fireproof. Steel framing is standard for businesses here but homes are still sticks and mud.

Hardy Plank concrete siding replaced wood around here decades ago.
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#312224 - 05/16/19 02:56 AM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9290
Loc: North San Diego County
It is ember-proof. It is fire-proof if there is nothing hot enough to ignite the wood within 100 feet. It burns if you plant flammable shrubs right next to the house, or have a redwood deck that embers ignite. We have a fixation on defensible space here in California. If your house is not defensible, the firemen will just move on to the next house that is. They won't even try to save it because there talents are more useful at houses they can save.

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#312230 - 05/16/19 12:21 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17265
Thanks, guys. I'm awake before 5 a.m., reading a little and catching up, trying to get sleepy again, and now I'm depressed and scared. I've been busy avoiding reality and here you bring it to me. Sheesh!

I've been railing about our collective irresponsibility for some time. The worst effects won't affect me, but my children, well, they're f*ed. I spent some time (too much) trying to convince some climate deniers that we're already witnessing the effects of global climate change in hurricanes and fire seasons, with graphs, charts and, you know, science. What I learned is, their capacity for denial is inexhaustible. Evidence they don't like is "dismissed", and any scintilla of a hint of anything contrary ("it's snowing outside") is flogged to death as refutation of climate change. There are too many of "them", and the worse it gets, the more of them there will be. Humans hate to admit fault.

The truth is, we're probably already too late. I live on a hill (unfortunately in a forest), so I'll be above the tsunami line, even after the sea rise, but the neighborhood will probably go up in flames during the coming droughts. Already summers here are routinely smoky. We go to the coast when it gets bad (my wife has breathing issues), and we have a well-stocked bugout vehicle for the coming disasters (assuming we can get fuel within 300 miles or so). I'll probably need a long gun for survival, but a neighbor has an arsenal...

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#312233 - 05/16/19 01:15 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9871
Loc: One of the Mexicos
An alternative to bugging out (assuming there is any place to bug out to) is to attempt to create resilient communities where we are. If everybody did that, we might have a chance to correct our course.

At the least, it would be a more pleasant way to spend our last days... instead of in worrying and fear.

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You canít solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#312234 - 05/16/19 01:39 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9871
Loc: One of the Mexicos
_________________________
You canít solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#312237 - 05/16/19 03:21 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17265
Originally Posted By: logtroll
An alternative to bugging out (assuming there is any place to bug out to) is to attempt to create resilient communities where we are. If everybody did that, we might have a chance to correct our course.

At the least, it would be a more pleasant way to spend our last days... instead of in worrying and fear.

ThumbsUp
Truly, I agree. Resilient communities spread.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#312241 - 05/16/19 03:43 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16258
Loc: Florida
Resilient communities...

Small groups of heavily armed rednecks with farming and hunting experience living in remote farmable, huntable, fishable rural areas.

I live in one of these communities. We even have a couple helicopters.

Republicans are ready! Democrats not so much. Cities are going to be a nightmare.
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