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#312191 - 05/12/19 07:10 AM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Sea level rise does not happen overnight: It probably happens over a few hundred years, at the quickest. Plenty of time to modify ports and build new ones. Everybody could walk North out of Florida and beat sea level rise. Water moves North, but the corn belt also moves North, as does the wheat belt. Parts of Canada, Scandinavia, Siberia, Argentina, and Chile can grow wheat where it is too cold now.

At the same time, some equatorial deserts get bigger. Some equatorial jungles become uninhabitable because of tsetse flies and heat. Some lakes dry up, some form or get bigger. In general, there is more water in the atmosphere, not less.

Some countries get richer, some get poorer as weather patterns change. Some are totally underwater, but not that many.

The Earth goes on just fine, but it may be very difficult for us. Probably no new megafauna evolve, because this would be too fast for evolution.

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#312196 - 05/13/19 06:53 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3603
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think you are saying that climate change can be dealt with. That may actually be true. However, its not gonna happen. The first problem is politics and the second are national boundaries, worldwide. Between the two what we are going to get are floods of refugees (already started on our southern border), and entire nations getting desertified whilst actually invading neighbors. There are records of ice age changes and its gonna happen again.

There are, we are told, actually solutions to mitigate. That too isn't going to help. Eventually the more adventurous are going to try and fix it by 'helping' the atmosphere with chemicals, etc. One mistake and EVERYBODY dies!

Sorry - not a big believer in humanity's ability to actually act in its own best interest.

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#312199 - 05/14/19 01:35 AM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
climate change can be dealt with


Implying that humans do somethings to make the climate like it was in 1900: No, probably not. The Earth goes on, but maybe without us. I think the things that can wipe out humanity are all man made. Climate change may precipitate one or the other, but we don't actually die from climate change.

One of the most likely is a synthetic virus that kills every body who is Black, or Yellow, or White. Some people seem to think everything would be peachy if we could just kill xxxx*. Of course, once you have an xxxx specific virus it's just a small tweak to make it kill other races.

* Where xxxx represents the race of your choice.

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#312200 - 05/14/19 03:58 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17277
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Sea level rise does not happen overnight: It probably happens over a few hundred years, at the quickest. Plenty of time to modify ports and build new ones. Everybody could walk North out of Florida and beat sea level rise. Water moves North...


Uh...water is gonna move north south east and west. It's not just coming across the southern border. Walls won't stop it.

Plenty of time? And plenty of available land to the north just sitting there waiting to be farmed? We can get all the food we need from Canada?

Your science fiction addiction is once again affecting your judgement about what science can accomplish. We can't even afford to build new roads and bridges yet you've got us mining asteroids and growing wheat in space to feed a starving planet.

I hear there's flooding in the corn belt right now. Trump's trade wars are pushing farmers into bankruptcy. Bees and other pollinators are dying. Rain patterns that crops depend on are changing. There's a lot more involved than just moving crops a little north. Too much rain, too little rain, rain at the wrong time...crops fail, people starve.
What you get is famines, wars, pestilence and wholesale death. Those four horsemen we've been told about.

We can't even manage to rebuild Puerto Rico after a single storm. And a new hurricane and wildfire season are upon us once again...after a devastating winter that has already disrupted farming across the great plains with massive flooding...science better get its ass in gear if it's going to save us.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#312203 - 05/14/19 06:32 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10331
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Greger
...science better get its ass in gear if it's going to save us.
Science, engineering, and blind arrogance are what got us into all this. A major paradigm shift is what will get us out, dead or alive.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#312205 - 05/14/19 09:37 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
growing wheat in space to feed a starving planet

Ridiculous: I never said that. It would be possible to grow enough on the moon to support a colony there, but importing food to Earth is crazy expensive.

Quote:
mining asteroids
Some people with a lot of money are actually spending some of that money on this.
BBC link

And you know we could rebuild Puerto Rico perfectly well, if they didn't all speak Spanish. It just takes money and maybe the Army Corps of Engineers for a while, but they don't get to vote so Trump would rather spend the money in Florida.

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#312206 - 05/14/19 09:50 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17277
Loc: Florida
Quote:
It would be possible to grow enough on the moon to support a colony there, but importing food to Earth is crazy expensive.


yeah, everything about space is crazy expensive. Hard to do when wildfires, floods, and hurricanes are slamming you every few months.

When the crop failures get serious and the famines begin there will be even less money for going to space. Wars will eat up most of it.
When you wonder about the future, just look at the past and our record of solving problems with anything besides more war. Leaving the planet and going of into space is not and will never be an option. Never.

Rebuilding every major coastal city in the world and all the harbours and access to them isn't liable to happen either. We're too busy filling the oceans with plastic and burning noxious chemicals so that the rich may never want for anything.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#312207 - 05/15/19 03:11 AM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
But building a new port facility is just another way those rich people can get richer. Things change, but the rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. They tried having the state own everything in communist USSR and China, and that didn't work so well. Insurance companies will continue forever: The risks change and the rates reflect those risks. We can easily build fire-proof houses and people are starting to do it in California. That removes a lot of the risk from wildfires.

Likewise, people living in 500 year flood planes (now apparently 5 year flood planes) need to build on stilts or concrete blocks that make the downstairs all garage. On the other hand, I would not bother making your house hurricane-proof, if it's going to end up under water.

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#312209 - 05/15/19 12:52 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Most climate modeling has been found to be on the conservative side in regards to the speed and acceleration rate of global warming.
I'm generally hoping that it catches the most infantilized generation in history as they seem to be the most irresponsible and largest contributors of carbon emissions.
There seems to be something in the human species that makes the future unimportant to the present. Except when it comes to capitalism and investment there seems to be no capacity for regard of the future. Spurning social conscienceness and class struggle has only helped accelerate the problem.
Money is starting to sit up...

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#312210 - 05/15/19 01:05 PM Re: end is nigh [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The left has been all over this history eclipsing horror but as we know, the two american political parties have no capacity to turn left.

The concept of social goods and services is abhorrent to the boards of directors of these two corporate parties, preferring consumerism and faux meritocracy instead.

Like the Roman elites, today's can't build their doomsday villas fast enough while the rest of us suckers hold mock arguments about inherent rights.

Ho ho, too sad and ironic at the same time..


Edited by chunkstyle (05/15/19 01:07 PM)

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