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#312515 - 06/10/19 09:56 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
JGW, you seem upset that everyone doesn't take a centrist, Republican light stance such as yourself. I will not vote for Joe Biden. Okay?

If that's the best the Democratic Party can muster then I'd just as soon have another 4 years of Trump. In fact, I'd rather have Trump. He will continue to damage the Republican Party. Joe Biden on the other hand will make a case for just how useless and out of touch the Democrats really are.
This has nothing to do with parties, or our own supposed "two party system". All politics is about class warfare. The rich vs the poor, the workers vs corporations, the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie. The aristocracy vs the commoners, conservatives vs liberals. The landed gentry vs the landless. Labor vs management.
The House of Lords vs the House of Commons.

There are many factions. But there are only two sides.

Some call them right and Left.

Those with money vs those with none.

I have none.

During the French revolution the supporters of the King were seated to his right.
The supporters of the Revolution were seated to his left. The party of order vs. the party of movement.

Change vs the status quo.

Needless to say those who sided with the King were those with the most money...

Marx and Engles saw that this was a recurring theme. They sought to explain it and offer hope that the cycle could be broken and that finally men could be free!

Freedom is not the agenda of the right...despite what you might have heard.

Democrats are not the left. Despite what they might have led you to believe.

Socialists don't want "the government" to own anything. Socialists want the people to own everything. Not just a few people either...all of us.

The role of government is simply to be sure that order is maintained and everyone gets what they need.

Our current model is creating a Billionaire Class and a class of wage slaves. You may hate it to the roots of your very teeth but socialist policies are the only thing that's gonna save our asses.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#312517 - 06/10/19 10:34 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9324
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I reckon that pretty much sums it up.

Originally Posted By: Greger
...Socialists don't want "the government" to own anything. Socialists want the people to own everything. Not just a few people either...all of us...

Since the topic is War and Other Stuff, I thought I'd add that the closest thing we have to a pure, dictionary compliant example of Socialism is the Department of Defense. In the DoD, the government owns and controls everything, and the rank and file are more or less completely taken care of in exchange for agreeing to be told what to do and obeying without question.
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#312520 - 06/11/19 01:37 AM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14198
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
JGW, you seem upset that everyone doesn't take a centrist, Republican light stance such as yourself. I will not vote for Joe Biden. Okay?

If that's the best the Democratic Party can muster then I'd just as soon have another 4 years of Trump. In fact, I'd rather have Trump.



You're really serious??
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312521 - 06/11/19 01:42 AM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14198
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger

Our current model is creating a Billionaire Class and a class of wage slaves. You may hate it to the roots of your very teeth but socialist policies are the only thing that's gonna save our asses.


Maybe so but so far it looks like they SUCK at marketing.
Anyone who ever tried marketing understands that a label turn-off means the end of their product. They can make the best product of its kind but if people hate the name, it will not sell.

So, if you're going to sell socialism, and you already recognize that it's about the haves vs the have nots, then you'd better figure out what to call it so that the have not people in this country can relate to it.

General Motors could easily come out with a fast and lovely rear engine sports car if they want, but if they call it a Corvair...if they SAY that they are reintroducing the Corvair, it will be DEAD in the water.

Think about it.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312529 - 06/11/19 03:53 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
You don't really see them trying to "sell" socialism in Europe do you?

No. Because higher wages and more paid time off sort of sells itself most places. So does accessible healthcare.

Only here in America are those things deemed evil socialist programs that will destroy our way of life and turn us into robots with no freedoms.....NO FREEDOMS!!!!!
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#312537 - 06/12/19 05:09 PM Re: war and other stuff [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Your 14 year old is going to be lucky to even have a job, along with the entire generation. Automation is going to take care of that. Even when it comes to the stock market its happening. Have you seen pictures of the bank upon bank of trading computers that trading literally millions of stock hourly?

I fear its gonna be like the current homeless thing in spades. I fear that, sooner rather than later, we are going to create a lower class without hope. I also suspect there are ivory tower folks working on this one right now. The problem is that, seemingly, we are no longer really into fixing problems in any meaningful way. Emigration, education, wealth distribution, etc., have been known for years but no fixes in place. Drugs were solved by Portugal about 18 years ago - we have been ignoring that one as we are into punish bigtime. Recidivism was solved by Northern Europe years ago - we ignored that too. None of this stuff is a mystery and none of it is actually being addressed.

I can only wonder what is going to happen when blood starts to run in the streets. I also wonder how is AI going to deal with stuff when humanity is no longer necessary for ANYTHING! This stuff is coming! (and fast) I can remember when they ordered tanks into Washington, DC - with their guns down. That got solved (Vietnam) but only because we had the draft now even that is gone and we are into forever wars.

Sorry, I am even depressing myself!

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