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#312519 - 06/10/19 11:30 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
And speaking of definitions...the Merriam Webster definition of socialism is bogus as f*ck.

In a socialist society there is no division between the government and the people. They are the same entity.

e pluribus unum

The government is the voice of the people.
Ours was supposed to work that way.

Unfortunately whenever fat envelopes full of cash appear it all goes out the window.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312522 - 06/11/19 01:53 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14198
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
That's why I say it's time to stop kowtowing to them and reclaim our own message.

If we took Loggy's advice and named it Americanism, they would call it the new communism and Americanism would become un-American.

"They" always get to write the definitions.


No I don't think that effort would succeed at all. They would be trolled into oblivion faster than Rick Santorum.
Don't you realize that calling it "Americanism" is playing their game and beating them at it? Do you not recognize the simple elegance of calling it Americanism?

Why do you think words like "patriot" and "freedom" are succeeding?
It's not because Republicans stand for them, it's because they marketed those words, they used them all the time, every chance they got.

And the first thing you do when selling Americanism is tell Americans that it will reduce the Despair Quotient in our great nation.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312523 - 06/11/19 01:59 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14198
Loc: Whittier, California
What is "Americanism"?
It's social democracy rebranded.

Americanism reduces the Despair Quotient in this great nation of ours.
Americanism is LESS about Republicans and Democrats, and more about Americans. Americanism supports the greatest voting block in our great country, the American working family.
Americanism harnesses capitalism as a tool to serve working Americans.

It is time to create and use this new word to describe the very things that will help Americans the most, and those things are brought to you by social democracy, which is now called "Americanism".
If you believe in the New Deal and you believe in the power of social democracy to transform the lives of working Americans, you are an Americanist.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312525 - 06/11/19 10:03 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9324
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
What is "Americanism"?
It's social democracy rebranded.

Americanism reduces the Despair Quotient in this great nation of ours.
Americanism is LESS about Republicans and Democrats, and more about Americans. Americanism supports the greatest voting block in our great country, the American working family.
Americanism harnesses capitalism as a tool to serve working Americans.

It is time to create and use this new word to describe the very things that will help Americans the most, and those things are brought to you by social democracy, which is now called "Americanism".
If you believe in the New Deal and you believe in the power of social democracy to transform the lives of working Americans, you are an Americanist.
ThumbsUp cool
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#312526 - 06/11/19 12:20 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9324
Loc: One of the Mexicos
We have to promote Americanism without relating it to the word socialism, though.

Americanism makes possible the increased well-being of every one of us.

Americanism is of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Americanism promotes the general welfare of all citizens though good old American ingenuity and teamwork.

Americanism is the rising tide that lifts all boats.

Americanism takes the best ideas and puts them together to create better outcomes.

Americanism does not tolerate lying and deception.

Americanism holds respect for others in highest regard.
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#312527 - 06/11/19 02:52 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15345
Loc: Florida
That's all well and good. As long as you don't do anything un-American like raising taxes or helping poor people.

Really. It's not so much lefties calling themselves socialists as the righties calling them socialists.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312533 - 06/12/19 10:16 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
'It's all sizzle and no steak!!!' -Gary Blair

Yeah, I get that advertising is important. Hell, I paid the rent for three years sellin corn syrup to kids. But doesn't it still come down to mobilizing your base and giving them something to come out and vote for?

When you address material needs you get votes. Corbin in the U.K., Mexico's Obrador, Jesse Jackson's campaign, Sanders unlikely challenge, etc.. A concept that gets little traction here.

Lofty rhetoric has been employed for decades now while it continues to get rougher and rougher to make your nut and hang on to it.

In other words, it's just the same sucky product with a new banana sticker to rid itself of it's own lousy reputation. As though a new rebranding will change the user experience if the product still sucks. No amount of virtue signaling will change that.

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#312535 - 06/12/19 04:41 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Interesting, which message do you want to reclaim? Right now there are a plethora of them. I don't think that there is a single person, currently running for Democratic President that does not have a different message from the other. In other words the left has NO single message but a confusing conglomeration of whatever. In other words, they are working, very hard, to demonstrate their inability to agree on a damned thing and there is, certainly, no specific message.

The talking heads of TV, for instance, are constantly bemoaning the fact that the Democrats have yet to define themselves, except the Biden. The rest just keep hoping that one of their messages gains steam.

I guess the real message goes something like; "whahoo!" (somethings gotta eventually stick?)

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#312539 - 06/13/19 12:34 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
You must long for the days of past neoliberal hegemony in the Democratic party JGW.
The reason your hearing different messages (normal this far out in an election by the way) is there are alternative visions of government emerging. Some from an emergent left that you seem not to be able to discern.
I welcome it. It's looong overdue within the party and forces these republican retreads to deal with true left alternatives.
Fear not though, my politically adolescent online compatriot, the DNC is working overtime to quash any challenges by blacklisting any and all campaign shops that work for a left challenger.
Makes one wonder how long the neoliberal wing of the Democratic party can be a legitimate political party if it has to curtail all debate and primary challenges to maintain power.
Makes the management class with 401's happy but that's not going to be enough in the long run IMO.


Edited by chunkstyle (06/13/19 12:39 AM)

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#312549 - 06/13/19 06:40 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
What I long for is a Democratic Party that actually behaves as if it really wants to win. This is not happening. This is not personal as I have a lot of company on this one. The Republicans define their points and then most jump on the bandwagon. The Democrats have defined very little and nobody has jumped on any band wagon. I watch interview after interview where people say; "what do the Democrats stand for". We are talking about the party as everybody running has some kind of message but nobody seems to believe that they should have some single answers. My suggestion was to deal with the language used in messages. Things like not claiming to be Socialist, referring to the existing healthcare as "For Profit Healthcare", calling tarriffs "Trump Taxes", etc. I know that none can bring themselves to indulge in such behavior but it would help.

Then there is the Democratic congressional dog and pony show which has been, frankly, embarrassing. They are talking everything to death, threatening much, but little real activity even though they have the right to have at it if they chose. I can go on, and on, and on, about this but I think I have already probably over killed that horse.

My hope is that the a majority of Americans will actually get out and vote against the current administration by voting Democratic . Everyday there is a new offense against law and truth and common sense. Hopefully Trump is unpopular enough that the Democrats will win by simply existing as a foil against our dear leader, the Jackass. Some have suggested, incidentally, that Democrats refer to Trump not as 'president' but "UN-Endicted Donald" which seems fair.

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