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#312694 - 06/27/19 02:37 PM Supreme Court vs. The People
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17398
I am prepared to be very depressed today. Two decisions expected today may put the final nail in the coffin of "free and fair" elections in the United States. The first nail was just hammered in when the Court ruled that partisan gerrymandering is not a Constitutional issue. The next question is what the Court does with the Census.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#312697 - 06/27/19 03:04 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Apparently the Court believes parties of irrelevance should control Congressional politics.

It sounds so Constitutional.
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#312700 - 06/27/19 03:22 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17398
I'm not just depressed, frankly, I'm really pissed. CJ Roberts basically told the Republican party "Hey, I'm with you guys on everything, but you gotta give me something to work with here." So, he goes along with partisan gerrymandering (foreclosing the issue for the future, or trying to), and remanding the census question to give them a second shot at creating a different pretext. Get REAL! Once the pretext has been established, the question is answered. You don't get a second bite at the rotten apple.

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#312702 - 06/27/19 03:53 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16915
Loc: Florida
Once massive immigration reform has occurred the citizenship question won't be a problem. At present, using it as a weapon against non-citizens is just wrong as hell.

Gerrymandering, however, is wrong on every level. Has the constitution nothing to say at all about free and fair elections? Is it a state issue that should have been resolved and eliminated long ago?

Are our Republican counterparts so bereft of all sense of decency and fair play that they believe there is something good and right about cheating to win elections?

Sadly I am completely uninformed as far as election laws and whether they are federal or state mandated. I'm pretty well read up on what assh*les conservatives can be though.....
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#312705 - 06/27/19 11:07 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10243
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Greger
Are our Republican counterparts so bereft of all sense of decency and fair play that they believe there is something good and right about cheating to win elections?

Yes.
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#312708 - 06/28/19 06:58 AM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9952
Loc: North San Diego County
The gerrymandering issue is far from closed: Each state can outlaw it, even for US representative districts. Some states actually have, and the Supreme Court let the state supreme court decisions stand as it was a state issue. So any state with a liberal supreme court can get a case to them, and get a decision that it violates the state constitution.

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#312712 - 06/28/19 04:04 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Maybe I missed something here.

Quote:
Each state can outlaw it
No Republican state will outlaw it as it guarantees their continued political control of the several states AND it guarantees they will continue to have a significant presence in Congress



Quote:
So any state with a liberal supreme court
No Republican state has a liberal court ergo any case demanding gerrymandering cease for whatever reason will be thrown out.

You can not win with the fascists. They have rigged the system in their favor. The change will be in 2 or 3 generations.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#312714 - 06/28/19 06:09 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16915
Loc: Florida
Even red states are not made up entirely of Republicans. If it can be proven that partisan redistricting is un-constitutional at a state level then lawsuits, ballot initiatives, and general public grumbling can get districts redrawn.

"Gerrymandering" in and of itself, is a shameful old tactic that really has no place in this century. The Supremes didn't say it was a good thing, they just said it wasn't an un-Constitutional thing.

It could probably be constitutionally legislated into illegality though.
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#312720 - 06/29/19 07:46 AM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9952
Loc: North San Diego County
At least one state already has. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court said it violates the state constitution, and the US Supreme Court refused to intervene. Gerrymandering by Republicans yields more US House seats, but it has no effect on the state Governor's office. A state can be very "red" in terms of US House seats and still have a democratic majority in their state senate. That's kind of the point of gerrymandering: To overcome the democratic majority. Since everybody in the state votes for Governor, and state supreme courts are either selected by the governor or elected state-wide the gerrymandering does not affect the state supreme court makeup.

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#312723 - 06/29/19 03:58 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16915
Loc: Florida
Florida has made some headway in that regard too, but the battle has been fierce.
Quote:
In its majority opinion Thursday, the U.S. Supreme Court referenced Florida’s Constitution in asserting that states have the ability to solve this issue themselves
Miami Herald
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