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#312701 - 06/27/19 03:37 PM They have names
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17179
Last night in the Democratic debate Julian Castro did something really important - he used the names of the father and daughter, Oscar Alberto Martínez and his 23-month-old daughter, Angie Valeria, who drowned in the Rio Grande after having been illegally denied entry to the United States by CBP officials (the family arrived at Puerta México international bridge in Matamoros Sunday planning to seek asylum, but they were told it was closed and they would have to return the following day.)

I've seen the picture (it's unavoidable) of the bodies of Oscar and his daughter, washed ashore downriver, with his daughter swaddled in his t-shirt and her arm draped over his shoulder. His wife and her mother, Tania, watched them being swept away by the current. This is negligent homicide. Had they not been illegally kept from applying for asylum, they never would have taken such a drastic action.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#312703 - 06/27/19 05:24 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15733
Loc: Florida
But on the other hand...

What the hell are these people thinking? Hasn't anyone told them about the children in cages?

There is no freedom here and no hope for a better tomorrow. This is no shining city upon a hill.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312709 - 06/28/19 07:10 AM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8929
Loc: North San Diego County
People actually do get out of the cages eventually. Adults finish their relatively short jail sentence for illegal entry and some kids do get placed with legal resident sponsors or their own parents who are seeking asylum. Trump's policies are just making a mess, not a holocaust death camp.

The ironic thing is that Trump has implemented policies that make government the problem, ala Reagan! But I bet if you are immigrating from Norway, it's just a matter of filling in the right form and paying the convenience fee, and you are through the border and awaiting the paperwork to catch up with you.

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#312710 - 06/28/19 02:03 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17179
That is mostly, and demonstrably, true. Each year the President sets quotas for asylum seekers. It has usually ranged in the 70-90,000s.. under Trump it has been more than halved. It's not that asylum seekers don't arrive - it's that the resources to process them are not allocated. In this instance, Trump is actually following the standard Republican playbook: ignore the issue, and make it worse. The list is long - climate change, environment, income inequality, racial disparity, Palestine, South and central American poverty. Trump has merely expanded the list and followed the worst course possible.

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#312711 - 06/28/19 02:06 PM Re: They have names [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17179
Originally Posted By: Greger
But on the other hand...

What the hell are these people thinking? Hasn't anyone told them about the children in cages?

There is no freedom here and no hope for a better tomorrow. This is no shining city upon a hill.
That just goes to show how shirt the conditions are at home.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#312713 - 06/28/19 05:29 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15733
Loc: Florida
Times are tough all over.

I'm certainly sympathetic to their plight, now's just not the time to try it. South America, Central America, and Mexico make up a pretty big piece of real estate. If it was me, I'd find someplace to hole up until Trump is out.
Just like everybody here is doing.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312721 - 06/29/19 07:55 AM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8929
Loc: North San Diego County
When the gangs tell you your ten year old son has to join or die, "holing up" is not an option. Especially if you are poor. Then it's a question of where do you run to in order to survive. The US used to spend some money to try to make conditions better in Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, but Trump cut that money "to punish them". Of course, like everything Trump does, it just made the situation worse.

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#312722 - 06/29/19 03:21 PM Re: They have names [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15733
Loc: Florida
So, you're telling me that walking a thousand miles to face Donald Trump's jack booted thugs and ultimately drowning in a river or dying in a gulag is their best option?

Take your ten year old and walk somewhere else until this blows over.

And for god sake steal a pool noodle somewhere before attempting to cross a river with your 2 year old...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312742 - 07/02/19 02:52 PM Re: They have names [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14575
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
When the gangs tell you your ten year old son has to join or die, "holing up" is not an option. Especially if you are poor. Then it's a question of where do you run to in order to survive. The US used to spend some money to try to make conditions better in Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, but Trump cut that money "to punish them". Of course, like everything Trump does, it just made the situation worse.


Not for the private detention facility owners!
It is impossible to take anyone seriously about their stance on illegal immigration as long as they back a party and a President who is in favor of supporting people and corporations who are making a fortune off every single illegal that crosses over and gets caught.

Of course it will make things worse for those countries, of course it will INCREASE the flow of illegals, that's exactly what GEO, CCA and the other companies want. The moment anyone solves this so that the flow of illegals stops, these companies will be in very dire straits. That's their money you're screwing with!
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The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312743 - 07/02/19 04:54 PM Re: They have names [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15733
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The migrant children in tent cities could have a suite at Trump's Washington hotel for rates lower than what the US government spends detaining them
Link
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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