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#327907 - 08/11/20 12:30 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
So what is Pelosi going to do about it? I agree they seem unconstitutional. Only congress can authorize the spending of money and withholding payroll taxes.

Democrats shy from leading court fight over Trump orders

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-bat...er-trump-orders

Congress has been ceding their constitutional powers to the administration and other government agencies for the last 50 years or even longer. It's become so that members of congress that are of the same party of the president are more part of the administration than members of the institutions of the House and Senate.

This also puts the Democratic House members between a rock and a hard place. Challenging the executive order and the other memo's could very well give the voters the perspective the Democrats are against the 400 dollars unemployment, the payroll tax, the deferment of student loans. Knowing there would be a ton of political ads portraying the Democrats of this could be, I said could be the prime reason they're not challenging this in court.

There was a time when speakers like Sam Rayburn, Mike McCormick and Carl Albert didn't give a dang which party the president was from, they weren't about to cede any of the House's constitutional powers. That has all changed. Showing my age here.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#327908 - 08/11/20 03:08 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10328
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: perotista
So what is Pelosi going to do about it? I agree they seem unconstitutional. Only congress can authorize the spending of money and withholding payroll taxes.

'Nuff said. No one is talking about how something the President can't do will ever happen.

There are no procedural mechanisms in place to carry out Trump's EO and Memoranda. Public employees would have to violate Federal laws to implement King Kon's scams. Who will sign the checks? Trump isn't a signer on the accounts.

I don't think his grand stunt had any plan to become reality, it's just a bait and switch for the ignorant and gullible. There are numerous failure dodges built in, where it will be someone else's fault if his boolshit doesn't materialize into helping anyone. Each document has a laundry list of boilerplate contingencies built in that assure the sturm und drang will be much ado about nothing.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#327909 - 08/11/20 04:54 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
We'll see. But I think it is much more than just a PR gimmick.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#327910 - 08/11/20 06:11 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 661
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Who will sign the checks? Trump isn't a signer on the accounts.


The same two President Donald (...) Trump* political appointees, whose signatures appear on every dollar bill issued in the last few years. No they are dollars I could burn.

Sectary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin.
Treasurer of the United States Jovita Carranza


*Impeached

and the Lawsuits keep rolling along... Just think we may have our first convicted criminal ex-president...


Edited by Ujest Shurly (08/11/20 06:13 PM)
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#327923 - 08/11/20 11:42 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: logtroll]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3559
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
As to the memoranda and the EO:

* My company is saying "no" to not withholding payroll taxes. Why would anyone want to go through that bookkeeping hell and then have to spit out a lump some in December or January?

* Even if he could redirect the FEMA funds, they would run out in 5 weeks and the states (who have no money) are on the hook for 25%. How exactly are they supposed to implement this inanity?

* The eviction freeze is nothing of the sort. It directs some agencies to look into implementing an eviction freeze.

As with everything Trump, it's a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing.
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How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

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#327927 - 08/12/20 04:45 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Irked]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
But Trump knows that it's all about perception. The gesture was entirely symbolic, it's all smoke and mirrors aimed at getting votes.
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Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#327928 - 08/12/20 12:19 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10328
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Greger
But Trump knows that it's all about perception. The gesture was entirely symbolic, it's all smoke and mirrors aimed at getting votes.

Exactly. Trump is all about making the sale and doesn’t give a shiit about delivering a quality product (or any product at all).

On the subject of voting by mail, Trump and DeJoy may be right - the USPS should be run more like a business, and shouldn’t be propped up to deliver “mail” in an antiquated way.

I agree that we should be voting by email, rather than snail mail, and especially instead of actually physically showing up at some polling site where there are so many clumsy inefficiencies in process and handling. (Think of the wasted time and gas, not to mention the wide open opportunities for fraud, what with the incredible availability of hats, realistic masks, and fake moustaches from Amazon with free one-day shipping. I hear from good authority that people are voting in person six, eight, sometimes a hundred times that way!)

A basic Doodle Poll is the correct model of modern elections. No waiting, no miscounting by corrupt Democrats, and the results would be emailed to everyone... sweet!
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#327935 - 08/12/20 09:45 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10345
Loc: North San Diego County
In the years before the insane pension funding fiasco, the USPS actually was making a profit. Then Republicans passed a bill that the USPS, unlike any other federal agency or business, had to fully fund the pension benefits 75 years out. This was a blatant attempt to kill the USPS, in favor of businesses like Fedex.

If Democrats win it all, they could change that to more reasonable requirements and then the USPS would be profitable again.

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#327941 - 08/13/20 03:09 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
In the years before the insane pension funding fiasco, the USPS actually was making a profit. Then Republicans passed a bill that the USPS, unlike any other federal agency or business, had to fully fund the pension benefits 75 years out. This was a blatant attempt to kill the USPS, in favor of businesses like Fedex.

If Democrats win it all, they could change that to more reasonable requirements and then the USPS would be profitable again.

ReTHUGlicons hate government and do everything they can think of to fck it up. Then they say...see? it doesn't work.

mad
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#327944 - 08/13/20 04:35 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17425
Our governmental system doesn't really have adequate "checks and balances" to address an Executive that is as willing to aggressively violate the law. It anticipates "men of honor" occupying offices of responsibility. Although the framers anticipated some efforts to evade the laws and norms, some danger from demagogues, they did not anticipate the all-out assault and willingness to destroy the government itself in pursuit of that effort.

Trump has taken numerous actions to literally destroy our democratic forms. It will take more than a single presidential term to fix all that he has broken. If we cannot gain control over the mechanisms of Democracy before this election, we may end this experiment in a messy, messy disaster.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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