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#322022 - 02/27/20 01:33 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I honestly believe you'll be bitterly disappointed if Sanders wins the nomination.


Is that because you think Trump will handily thump Sanders in the general election? Or because Sanders will win but find no success for his agenda?

I dunno about Chunks but I'm perfectly okay with either of these outcomes.
Just getting a progressive candidate nominated would be a BFD.

Getting one into the White House even bigger.

Expecting actual change might be asking more than the fates are willing to offer. A few small changes would be nice but not completely necessary. Electing Bernie would be a bit like re-arranging the stage before the next act. It's not really about Bernie you know. It's about the rest of us.


Earlier a friend of mine said that NO ONE can beat Trump because he looks bigger on the debate stage.
"He's taller than all the Democrats"
Oh well, no point in even running any candidates, I guess ROTFMOL

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#322025 - 02/27/20 02:36 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Hamish Howl]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
whoops, my bad Hamish.

Iíll sit back and listen. Seems like Iíve hit a nerve with you.

Feel free to take a political position. Who knows what itíll be.

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#322026 - 02/27/20 02:39 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10359
Loc: North San Diego County
If any Democrat takes the Presidency and congress goes Democratic, too, you most certainly will see some major changes. You won't see a massive shift to the left, even if Bernie wins. But I predict you will see massive voter reform including restoration of the Voting Rights Act. You would almost surely see lots of fixes to ACA, including a public option at the least. You would certainly see our foreign relations and immigration policy restored to sanity.

Even Trump's Chief of Staff told a meeting in Englad the other day that we are desperate for immigrants to fill low-paying jobs. I think that would take the form of a Farm Labor temporary work program.

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#322027 - 02/27/20 02:41 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10359
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
He's taller...


Well, certainly fatter!

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#322040 - 02/27/20 03:54 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I think Sanders WILL win the nomination. Then the big challenge will be to convince the Independents that "change" means deserting Trump. And also that President Bernie will not be able to wreck the economy because a Democratic congress won't ever let that happen.


The new playtoy of the media is "down-ballot damage" from a Bernie candidacy. The idea is that a Bernie win is so toxic that people would rather have four more years of Trump rather than help the raging Castro-hugging commie.

They'd rather abandon both chambers of Congress rather than see Bernie get in the White House. The Soviet National Anthem will blare from every TV set in the nation.
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#322072 - 02/27/20 03:17 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 853
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I would add anger or disappointment if that works.

Anger and disappointment are certainly things that would make you want to vote for change. Fear is another.

A lot of people are angry, disappointed, and afraid of Trump winning a second term. Some of them are Republicans. Bernie's early lead says there's excitement on the left...excitement...another reason to vote for change.

I just heard that Biden is currently up by 18 points in South Carolina. Apparently the debate broke his way and spooked off some of Bernie's support.

Let's see if Bernie outperforms the polls. I'm betting he will.


Either the debate broke Biden's way or blacks are returning to him. On 1 Feb Biden had a 18 point lead over Sanders in South Carolina. That shrunk to 3 points on 21 Feb. Blacks, Biden's strength fell from 55% support on 1 Feb down to 37% on 21 Feb. Biden probably regained most of the blacks he had lost back after the debate. Biden's lead is now 11 points.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls...imary-6824.html

I don't have the updated figures yet, but on 21 Feb among blacks in South Carolina, Biden was the choice of 37%, Steyer 24% and Sanders 17%. Among whites it was Sanders 47%, Warren 24%, Biden 18%.

Blacks are especially important in South Carolina as in 2016 they made up 57% of all the Democratic Primary vote. This may set up a pattern to be followed on Super Tuesday, where there are a lot of black voters, the south, Biden does very good in those states, Sanders not so good. Where the state is mostly white, it's Sanders all the way.

We'll see, It all depends whether or not Biden has regained his once very high black support.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#322079 - 02/27/20 03:46 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

Iíll sit back and listen. Seems like Iíve hit a nerve with you.


Don't flatter yourself.

Quote:
Feel free to take a political position. Who knows what itíll be.


I have. Repeatedly. I will be voting for Sanders.
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#322114 - 02/28/20 02:31 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

Iíll sit back and listen. Seems like Iíve hit a nerve with you.


Don't flatter yourself.

Quote:
Feel free to take a political position. Who knows what itíll be.


I have. Repeatedly. I will be voting for Sanders.


I'll vote for him in the upcoming primary, and I've sent him what little I could afford to send, but if it boils down to someone else when it is all said and done, I'll adapt if I have to.
Karen and I cannot afford four more years of this crap.
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#322118 - 02/28/20 03:36 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The Democratic Party is interfering in the elections with the most popular candidate.
I wouldnít expect Sanders supporters to come out to vote.
Without that large support itís doubtful theyíll win in the general.
Youíll be voting for a party that sabotages itself.

An interesting problem.

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#322123 - 02/28/20 04:33 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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