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#312983 - 07/23/19 02:04 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15444
Loc: Florida
You asked...I gave you some examples. Those things were mostly considered radical ideas until Bernie made them mainstream in 2016. They're all on the Democratic to do list now.

Will they get them all done? Nope. But progress will be made and things like this give some of us reason to hope that the future may not be as grim as it looks.
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#312984 - 07/23/19 03:55 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1720
You may be right. I'm not as sure about it.
Warren could lash together the same constituency as HRC did in 2016 but will it be enough?
There needs to be some damn righteous indignation and condemnation for what has happened to the average American overthe last 40years and I don't know that Warren is capable of doing that. Yeah, the lanyards will come out and vote but success has always been mobilize working class voters. PMC's have a hard time with that concept. I'm not sure she can do that yet.
My horse has been a proven bet but the 'Never Sanders' corporate wing is going to be an uphill battle. For all their rationalizations being about winning elections they have failed miserably but that doesn't seem to have weakened their grip on the party any.
The opinion of the democratic party leadership at my local level thinks anyone should be able to beat Trump as he's so offensive. I think they're being over confident as they were in 2016.
Someone once made the observation that the single greatest talent liberals possess is making failures sound like successes and keeping themselves from being turned out. I'm inclined to agree with that observation.


Edited by chunkstyle (07/23/19 03:59 AM)

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#312985 - 07/23/19 06:17 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15444
Loc: Florida
You think the upsurge in public opinion against Trump and the Republicans doesn't represent some righteous indignation and condemnation of what's happened to the average American over the last 40 years? Trump has brought it home, rich assh*les are running the show and they're trampling all over everybody else's rights.

Quote:
Warren could lash together the same constituency as HRC did in 2016 but will it be enough?

Clinton won by 3 Million votes. Democratic voters weren't terribly excited about the race, the primary was ugly and it was a sure thing anyway. Trump didn't stand a chance against her, we saw it in the papers and in the polls.
Things are different this time around. Democratic voters are outraged.
A small percentage of Republican voters are finding it more and more difficult to support this administration...

"Get Out Of Jail Free"


It would be such a waste to squander this advantage on someone like Biden. Bernie or Liz are either one fine by me. I'm leaning towards Warren as a personal favorite. The press might see a Warren Vs Sanders race as a very lucrative redux of 2016...
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#312986 - 07/23/19 10:57 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8771
Loc: North San Diego County
The only plus about a Warren vrs Sanders race is that the loser's people are certainly going to go vote for the winner. There are almost no fans of one that would find the other one unacceptable.

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#312992 - 07/24/19 09:07 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1720
There's a strong 'Never Sanders' crowd that I'd like to test your argument with PIA.

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#312993 - 07/24/19 09:30 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1720
Looks like Pelosi has assured the owners that, should any progressive candidate win the nomination and go on to win the presidency, any progressive plans will be kneecapped. I think I said somewhere to watch out for the neoliberal head fake when she was made speaker. Sadly, that concern was proven out:

"Former congressional staffers and other critics said that by agreeing to suspend the debt ceiling until 2021, Pelosi gave Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) the ability to extract massive spending cuts and other concessions from a Democratic president in exchange for raising the debt limit."

Pelosi Blasted for Deal That Enables GOP to Thwart Progressive Plan

More of that Neoliberal 3 dimensional chess that always seems to benefit the ownership class and the far right....


Edited by chunkstyle (07/24/19 09:31 AM)

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#312995 - 07/24/19 04:56 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15444
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
There's a strong 'Never Sanders' crowd that I'd like to test your argument with PIA.


The most vociferous of that lot seem to be the ones who oppose him because he's not a Democrat and hence should not be the "Democratic" candidate. The same ones have a deepseated issue with the word "socialism". But, as a group, they are conditioned to vote in every election. They are the first to shout "Vote Blue No Matter Who!" when they want you to vote for their candidate and they will be the last to sit home when there is a chance to do their civic duty. They'll vote Sanders if The Fates should weave that thread.

Loyalist Democrats one and all. But they'll be voting en masse
in the primaries. They'll be deciding who gets the nom-noms.

Lefties wanna take over the country? They need to overwhelm this crowd in the primaries.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#312996 - 07/24/19 05:19 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15444
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Neoliberal 3 dimensional chess that always seems to benefit the ownership class and the far right....


Not exactly. There's a Neoconservative 3D chess game going on over there too that always seems to benefit the ownership class while duping the far right into voting for them.

Bougies control both sides and just play them against each other.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#312997 - 07/24/19 05:57 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
I believe that enough people are weary of the childish antics of a bunch of spoiled rich brats.

Anyone who agrees is cordially invited to vote these infantile whelps completely out of power in November 2020.

No, you may not get exactly the change you hoped for...some elements of corruption and failures or moral rectitude transcend party boundaries but it is nevertheless clear that one party is currently tearing down any avenue of investment in our future to pay for the fortunes of Mammon today in a way which eerily resembles the saturnalias of Caligula.

If you love Caligula but you're not invited to a front row seat at the saturnalia, you're a fool who thinks some of the palace festivities will just rub off on you merely by virtue of the fact that you're aware of them, when in reality you should acknowledge that you're just another peon outside the palace walls, holding your ears shut so that you can't hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Even a junkyard rat has enough common sense to hop a train to the supermarket.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313010 - 07/25/19 11:19 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15444
Loc: Florida
Vote Blue No Matter Who? Only if we eliminate Biden. No promises if it's Biden. Has anyone else noticed his resemblance to a snake?

A Slytherin? Strolling with the Gryffindors and Hufflepuffs?
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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