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#312971 - 07/22/19 01:19 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14197
Loc: Whittier, California
Quote:
"Demagogues don’t find radicals to lead; they radicalize their followers one outrage at a time."
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312972 - 07/22/19 01:23 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14197
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Most of the country doesn't have a concept of what a left alternative is and believes the framing from the right on it. Like it's confiscatory, makes people wear plywood suits, drive concrete cars etc...
Eugene Debs is one example. IWW is another. Unions a third socialist and communist, etc, etc, etc. Most are gone now. But we've discussed all this in the thread 'What Left'.
If you think being left of Trump makes you left I don't know what to say. Political dyslexia?


No, I did not say that being Left of Trump makes one Left, but apparently you're convinced that being Left of Trump makes one Right, and that the only solution is to allow perfect to be the enemy of good, and to allow us to go even further Right in an effort to go Left.
But no dyslexia there!


Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

I would consider the democrats to be center right to far right and their history of supporting right wingers over leftists is clear. So is selling out Unions and working class people.
We just had a marvelous example of that with the house leadership attacking it's left flank and opening up further attacks on it by the president.
Mocking left wing proposals is another example of punching left.
Closing primary challenges and making the party a club is another example.
For some, these actions should further erode the center rights base of support. My instincts tell me the center right leadership is banking on running a monkey and winning since Trump is so offensive to them. Time will tell.
I'd rather vote for Eugene Debs and not be a part of the rightward drift.


But we will be able to address these inequities better under four more years of Trump...said NO ONE EVER.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312973 - 07/22/19 03:01 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."

Such an Orwellian statement. I remember it during the last Presidential election and it was revealing how much that candidate sucked that the more left leaning base kept having that thrown up in their face as a rationale for getting behind the corporate candidate (yet again).It was vacuous and, yes, a form of hectoring.

Vote for who you want Jeff, but for me it comes down to having a line which you can't cross (or follow rather) and for myself I won't follow the Democratic party any further in it's rightward drift. If it has real legitimacy then the Democratic party should be just fine without my vote.

If it losses legitimacy then it should be knocked out in elections and something else will have to replace it that has more. Guilting people is no substitute for good policy and ideas. The party is on notice from what little is left of unions and the same from leftists. It's response was to change party rules and give it's illegitimate cogress members tenurship. That's undemocratic and the question has to be asked 'who's interests are being served with this arrangement?"

It's ironic that Nixon was quoted as saying 'were all Keynesians now". Fast forward 40 some years and we have the head of the democratic party declaring 'were all capitalists now'.



Edited by chunkstyle (07/22/19 03:04 PM)

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#312975 - 07/22/19 05:11 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15343
Loc: Florida
Quote:
But we will be able to address these inequities better under four more years of Trump...said NO ONE EVER.


I'm not hearing ANY predictions about how Biden plans to fix anything. Warren has plans in place, Bernie has been planning this forever. Biden has Obama.

I'll have the gluten free, sodium free, thin sliced Milquetoast please! With a side of climate catastrophe and a global extinction event.

I certainly don't blame a leftie for not planning to vote for Biden. I don't know why any thinking democrat would vote for him in the first place.
Is he inevitable? Or does he really just represent the undecided voters? Bernie and Liz are pretty much tied for second. Here's a scenario I'm comfortable with...Maybe Biden will fade and this will turn into a race between Bernie and Liz!

EPIC

Trump would need to nuke Paris to get any attention while that was going on.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312976 - 07/22/19 05:23 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
Well were all hoping for a Sanders/Warren ticket and bulldoze the corporate wall down...

"When people say that Democrats should unify, the part they leave out is most important: Around what? Nearly everyone in Washington seems to assume that progressives should shut up, accept their place, and unify around the status quo.

Think about what an arrogant and preposterous request that is. Progressive leaders, including our representatives in Congress, should abandon all of our policy positions and sell out our voters to please the Democratic establishment. Saying “hell no” to that would be an enormous understatement."

Cenk Uygur in 'The Wall Street Journal'. Strange days indeed...

Democrats should unify behind AOC

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#312977 - 07/22/19 06:44 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
Fantasy Sanders intro music for his acceptance speech for the nomination in 2020....



laugh

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#312978 - 07/22/19 10:26 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
Oh Dear!

The degree of seperation between these camps gets smaller and smaller...

"How did wealthy sex offender Jeffrey Epstein come to be palling around with Bill Clinton and Donald Trump?

People who know those involved said Epstein’s connections to two U.S. presidents ran through one bubbly British heiress: Ghislaine Maxwell."

Full article

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#312979 - 07/22/19 10:28 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14197
Loc: Whittier, California
I don't think Biden will hang onto his front runner status much longer. Liz Warren is loading up some solid ammo and she's going to use it on him.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312981 - 07/22/19 10:41 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15343
Loc: Florida
Quote:
"When people say that Democrats should unify, the part they leave out is most important: Around what?

Right now? This minute? The answer is crystal clear...Oust Trump.

That dynamic isn't going to change. Angry voters show up to vote.
That's our 2020 wild card, almost a "get out of jail free" card.

There are several issues worth unifying over beyond that though.

Immigration reform. A Democratic controlled government can do it with a few swipes of a pen.
Double the minimum wage. The house just passed a bill to do it.
Open Medicare up to people 55 and older with plans for further expansion.
Make higher education more affordable and abolish student debt.
Get rid of the Social Security cap entirely.

That's a few things.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312982 - 07/22/19 11:33 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1626
I believe that was the lanyard's play in 2016 Gregor. What gives you hope it'll work in 2020?

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