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#312886 - 07/14/19 09:57 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15479
Loc: Florida
Quote:
That's the world that we, the other half, sat back and allowed to happen.


I didn't want this, I din't vote for this, and I will not be held responsible for it.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312889 - 07/15/19 01:04 AM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Gregor]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8779
Loc: North San Diego County
You actually voted. A huge percent of eligible voters did not. That's the collective "we" to blame for this. I like to think that most everybody here is not part of that collective.

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#312890 - 07/15/19 11:20 AM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Gregor]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Pennsylvania
Funny thing is, Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes! I wonder if it would have been 10 million, if he would have still won?

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#312892 - 07/15/19 02:07 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Kaine]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15479
Loc: Florida
He's probably going to lose by 10 million votes in 2020 so we'll see...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312893 - 07/15/19 02:34 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14319
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
You actually voted. A huge percent of eligible voters did not. That's the collective "we" to blame for this. I like to think that most everybody here is not part of that collective.


But that is almost the half that causes the problem. They don't VOTE! That's a vote for the people who are grinding us into the asphalt right now.

Partisans and partisan hacks love a good fight. Most partisan hacks live a very comfortable and protected life, or they're just born lucky.
That's why they're so willing to play fast and loose and bet the farm or take hostages, or sit out an election to punish anyone who isn't willing to be partisan enough to make them happy.

And they usually wind up punishing the people who can afford it the least, and that's the very same vulnerable, poor, disabled and elderly, and the remaining folks many of whom had played by the rules, worked hard and honestly, and just got dealt a very lousy hand of cards by fate.

And then some people believe deep down in their very heart and soul that ideology can beat perception and presentation, also known as BRANDING.

It never has.
And the folks who have to live with the outcome of that failing gamble wind up under the thumb of a would be dictator, an incompetent, sanity-deprived authoritarian hack with the attitude of a bully.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312894 - 07/15/19 02:42 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15479
Loc: Florida
Quote:
You actually voted. A huge percent of eligible voters did not. That's the collective "we" to blame for this.

I don't really buy into that anymore.
The demographics of those who don't vote may be a little more Democratically inclined but the thing we learned from the 2016 election is that it's not so much the number of votes as where the voters are located.

We don't need a get out the vote drive among the homeless in LA. We don't need more Puerto Rican votes in New York, or Blacks in Chicago.
We don't need the elderly bused from their nursing homes. We need more Democratic voters in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Wyoming et al.
The deep south has blanketed itself in ignorance and bigotry and they cling to their heritage of white supremacy.
We certainly don't need to blame what few "leftists" there are for Democratic losses at the polls.

Democrats promise the world and deliver squat. Republicans promise to make the rich richer and people of color miserable. That's a message that works and they deliver on it time after time after time.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#312895 - 07/15/19 02:54 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14319
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger

I don't really buy into that anymore.


Well I still do, and the more I learn about non-voting adults in the USA, the more convinced I am that not only do we have a turnout problem among would be liberal voters, I am also increasingly convinced that when SCOTUS gutted the Voting Right Act of 1965, it was a deliberate effort to help seal the South's direction for the Republicans forever.
The GOP in the South is now very much like the old PRI was in Mexico.

But in the end, apathetic non-voters are and remain the largest bloc in American electoral politics.

Quote:
But many adults in the US did not vote for Trump simply because they didn’t vote for anyone at all – 136 million ballots were cast in total, meaning that 45% of adults who live in the US did not participate on election day. There are many reasons why they didn’t vote but one takeaway is clear: the obstacles to voting disproportionately affect people of color.


Those people effectively DID vote for Trump, by not voting.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312896 - 07/15/19 02:57 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14319
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger

We certainly don't need to blame what few "leftists" there are for Democratic losses at the polls.


A few leftists?
I'm saying that it is impossible to fight an army with a drumming circle, that's all.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312897 - 07/15/19 02:59 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14319
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
He's probably going to lose by 10 million votes in 2020 so we'll see...



Love hearing that but we're going to need to increase liberal turnout in order for those votes to get cast.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#312898 - 07/15/19 03:05 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15479
Loc: Florida
Quote:
They don't VOTE! That's a vote for the people who are grinding us into the asphalt right now.

Bout half of them are perfectly fine with that. It's who they would have voted for anyway if they had bothered to vote at all. Most of the other half aren't Democrats but you want them to vote for your party anyway because...why exactly? What have they done lately to earn those votes. They might even be progressively inclined but they don't see Democrats acting all that progressive. They see an old woman ragging on a young woman of color for being progressive. Some Democratic Socialists are insisting on change while being ignored by Democrats. But you want their supporters to vote for your guy anyway.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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