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#313076 - 07/31/19 02:20 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Ujest Shurly]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9481
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Surely, you jest. Our worst behavior is better than the best where he comes from. If there be any forewarning it is just that I expect him to be oddly and overly defensive (though I have my doubts that his 'recon' of RR, as he puts it, will allow him to set foot here in the first place).

cool
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You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#313081 - 07/31/19 09:23 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15538
Loc: Florida
I don't hate republicans. They're dead wrong on every single issue but I don't hate them for it, their error is usually one of too much caution. I can respect that but History will prove me right, once again, if we continue on our present economic/political course i.e. unchecked capitalism and the resulting income inequality.

Do republicans even believe that a problem exists? What are the Republican plans to address the issue?

Or any issue? Any plans for the future? Trump seems to be laying waste to every department that actually gets anything done...

Come join us Loggy's moderately conservative pal and we'll type til we're blue in the face over it. We are few but we are powerful debators...or used to be...we might be a little over the hill now.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313082 - 07/31/19 10:00 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Greger]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3859
Loc: Eugene, OR
Here comes lurking Ken:

I’ll weigh in on this for what it might be worth. Not the paper it’s not printed on" is the deafening response. Lever the Ness:

By all means come aboard "Loggy’s pal". This site used to be interesting as it expressed many points of view but as all sides everywhere have now retreated to their various echo chamber corners (was that by Russian design or other nefarious entities?) its lost some of its former luster--to state mildly. I like to hear all points of view from everywhere as long as they contain a modicum of rationality.

Is that happening anywhere now.... Ken asks?
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#313083 - 07/31/19 10:12 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Gregor]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Ken please know we appreciate you very much, and we appreciate all points of view regardless of political affiliation.

I am trying to lure back as many now-silent names as I can get hold of.
We need to revitalize RR and I'm going to try my best.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313086 - 07/31/19 11:48 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
I invited a guy here from a moderate Righty blog. He’d like to try out some of his mentations at a real discussion forum.

It might be interesting... name’s Ohio Gene, unless he signs in otherwise. He’s used to places that ban based on ideological aberrations (echo chambers) but I promised him that RR doesn’t work that way.


He's certainly more than welcome to become part of the family.
If you can persuade him to register I promise I will add him.
See if you can get an email addy from him as it would help considerably.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313087 - 08/01/19 01:39 AM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8796
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
I don't hate republicans. They're dead wrong on every single issue but I don't hate them for it, their error is usually one of too much caution.


I don't hate them at all. I do hate the people who are manipulating them into voting against their own best interests. All of my many Republican friends are R voters because of stuff the leaders and financiers of the Party promote that actually hurts my friends. I fell sorry for them, much like you would feel for somebody so caught up in a long con that they can't admit to themselves the "Nigerian Prince" is just a crook and their bank account has been drained.

There are just a huge number of people who are against higher tax rates because they don't want to pay a lot of taxes when they win the lotto! The obvious connection between rich people paying less and them paying more is "fake news". (Which we know is real news they don't want to hear.)

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#313088 - 08/01/19 01:43 AM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9481
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: logtroll
I invited a guy here from a moderate Righty blog. He’d like to try out some of his mentations at a real discussion forum.

It might be interesting... name’s Ohio Gene, unless he signs in otherwise. He’s used to places that ban based on ideological aberrations (echo chambers) but I promised him that RR doesn’t work that way.


He's certainly more than welcome to become part of the family.
If you can persuade him to register I promise I will add him.
See if you can get an email addy from him as it would help considerably.


Alas, Oggie 'reconned' RR and determined that we are too stupid here to be worth his time. Which, in translation to the Upside Down, means that he took a peek and was scared shitless. I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.

Here is Oggies actually post 'splainin' hisself...

Quote:
lol... waste of my time. From reading all I noticed is that very few of them know the material they quote. Just like Kelvin they repeat the common misconceptions "Nordic country's are socialist" or "But Denmark"... or they quote the very failed theory itself or they quote folks who never actually tried to apply the theory in the real world but do have degrees in the theory itself. When applied the theory fails therefore it is not a valid theory. Fact: EVERY time socialist theory is applied as a form of governance it fails. Not just sometimes, but every time. Venezuela is only the latest example.
Fact: None of the Nordic nations use socialism as a form of governance and neither does Denmark. To be sure they have some sub-governance systems which, on the surface, use socialistic theory however those systems are actually bolstered by free market external forces and capitalist systems, under governance systems without which the socialistic systems would, indeed, collapse... The historical end result of allowing socialist theory into full governance is generally the complete takeover of the system by an elite caste or a singular party of elites followed by massive poverty in the general public, imprisonment of dissenting voices, chaos and protest that brings about high violence crackdowns by those same elites and the eventual collapse of the society stupid enough to adopt the system.
If the folks there are so smart perhaps they should come here and debate me...
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#313091 - 08/01/19 03:56 AM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: logtroll
I invited a guy here from a moderate Righty blog. He’d like to try out some of his mentations at a real discussion forum.

It might be interesting... name’s Ohio Gene, unless he signs in otherwise. He’s used to places that ban based on ideological aberrations (echo chambers) but I promised him that RR doesn’t work that way.


He's certainly more than welcome to become part of the family.
If you can persuade him to register I promise I will add him.
See if you can get an email addy from him as it would help considerably.


Alas, Oggie 'reconned' RR and determined that we are too stupid here to be worth his time. Which, in translation to the Upside Down, means that he took a peek and was scared shitless. I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.

Here is Oggies actually post 'splainin' hisself...

Quote:
lol... waste of my time. From reading all I noticed is that very few of them know the material they quote. Just like Kelvin they repeat the common misconceptions "Nordic country's are socialist" or "But Denmark"... or they quote the very failed theory itself or they quote folks who never actually tried to apply the theory in the real world but do have degrees in the theory itself. When applied the theory fails therefore it is not a valid theory. Fact: EVERY time socialist theory is applied as a form of governance it fails. Not just sometimes, but every time. Venezuela is only the latest example.
Fact: None of the Nordic nations use socialism as a form of governance and neither does Denmark. To be sure they have some sub-governance systems which, on the surface, use socialistic theory however those systems are actually bolstered by free market external forces and capitalist systems, under governance systems without which the socialistic systems would, indeed, collapse... The historical end result of allowing socialist theory into full governance is generally the complete takeover of the system by an elite caste or a singular party of elites followed by massive poverty in the general public, imprisonment of dissenting voices, chaos and protest that brings about high violence crackdowns by those same elites and the eventual collapse of the society stupid enough to adopt the system.
If the folks there are so smart perhaps they should come here and debate me...


Come here?? Where is "here"?
He must mean that we should go yell at the sky or something.

No one is advocating that the USA "turn socialist", as in "adopt a pure socialist economic system" because for one thing, it would be impossible.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313092 - 08/01/19 09:18 AM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: Gregor]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8796
Loc: North San Diego County
The real debate is much more about fine tuning. We already have a bunch of socialist stuff in this country. The current debate is "do a few more make sense" versus "screw the middle class". We have huge income inequality in this country, to the point that it's harming the economy. Harming it for everybody, even the rich. Maybe we should fix that. We have drug companies that charge insurance companies and Medicare $70,000 a year for a drug that costs them less than $100 per year to make. Is that excessive? But nobody wants to confiscate the means of production and hang the 1% from lamp posts.

I'm probably one of the few that wants to see the homeless helped more than the working class! That's not social democracy as we know it. It's more caring "for the least of these my brothers" to quote Jesus. Is feeding the hungry un-American? It's certainly Christian, which I guess puts to a lie the conservative claim that this was always a Christian Nation.

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#313093 - 08/01/19 02:59 PM Re: Roundtable for Summer 2019 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15538
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I'm probably one of the few that wants to see the homeless helped more than the working class!


Get the working class back on their feet and homelessness will take care of itself.

Loggy, your friend is a coward. He has nothing to bring to the table and he knows it. Republicans have zero interest in sustainable policy, zero interest in human suffering, and zero interest in the environment.

Socialism? Nah, not interested in the "owning the means of production" crap. If he read anything at all here he could see that. I wonder if he took social studies in school? Was it a class about socialism? No.

Is Social Security a program devised to secure the ownership of the means of production for the government? No. Do Social Directors seek to achieve government ownership of the means of production? uh-uh. So why does everyone insist that a social democracy is anything like the failed soviet model. Why the f*ck would government want to take over running businesses. Government is run BY BUSINESS, not the other way around. That is, more or less, what it's all about.

The Nordic nations, as well as a lot more around the world, are embracing the social democratic model. All it involves really is forcing "trickle down" to occur. Nobody ever said they were soviet style "Socialists".
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