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#312885 - 07/14/19 09:45 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
If you keep on Jeff, I will respond to it.
Your call.

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#312887 - 07/14/19 09:59 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
Back to politics,
I was glad to see Sherrod Browns criticism of the democratic party this past week. It was a huge disappointment for many that he didn't back Sanders and has been reported Sanders took it as something of a personal injury.
At this point though, you take what you can get and I'm glad he called out the Democratic parties gaslighting the base over 'electability':

Brown continued, “I called Donald Trump a racist because he was and is. I won the swing state of Ohio by 7 points. Elections aren’t about some electability calculation. They’re about one question. Whose side are you on? Are you on the side of workers or corporations? Are you on the side of consumers or Wall Street? Are you on the side of patients or drug companies? Are you on the side of voters or dark money?”

The Ohio senator also criticized Democrats for courting the white working class Trump supporters, saying, “Dignity of work is not code for targeting white men who voted for Trump. That’s a losing strategy. That’s a betrayal of our values.”

At a time when many Democrats are courting the middle and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is publicly criticizing some of the most progressive members of her caucus, it’s interesting to see a Democratic senator like Brown take a wildly different tact of embracing progressivism rather than running away from it.

Full article from the Stone

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#312888 - 07/15/19 12:46 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15654
Loc: Florida
He's no democratic socialist but his heart is in the right place. I'd like to see him as governor one day.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313047 - 07/28/19 09:42 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8879
Loc: North San Diego County
This is an interesting article:

Medicare For All Would Be Difficult

This is about "surprise billing", that happens when an emergency makes you seek medical care outside your medical group or HMO. Some of the bills you get are many times what they would charge someone in their own plan, and you are stuck with them.

Hospitals and doctors have fought tooth and nail to keep this scam intact, but they lost out in California in 2017. Medicare For All would end this, because it would pay anybody the same amount for a service.

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#313055 - 07/29/19 08:31 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15654
Loc: Florida
Yeah, SCOTUS is not gonna let much new stuff through. Medicare and Social Security can get shored up though, and a lot more states are interested in Medicaid than before. Any new Democratic government is gonna hafta put ACA back together again too.

There are a lot of things that CAN be done.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313056 - 07/30/19 01:39 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14434
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
He's no democratic socialist but his heart is in the right place. I'd like to see him as governor one day.


I would vote for him for POTUS.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313060 - 07/30/19 05:28 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15654
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I would vote for him for POTUS.


So would I, but I'm not a primary voter so I'll never get the chance. He's certainly not my first choice and other than being a nice, well spoken, white christian queer he's got nothing really to bring to the table.

We need someone at least familiar with foriegn policy and the way the state department operated before Trump threw a spanner in the works. I'm sure Mayor Pete could put on his top hat, tuxedo, and his best city hall manners and muddle through but he's still a boy scout politically. But like I said above, I hope he doesn't go away and would like to see his career take off after this.

When I think about the backlash that electing a black president caused I'm a little reticent to believe a gay president would be a good idea at this time.
Turns out we didn't live in a post racist society after all.

**edit**...Nominating a woman didn't go all that well either...


Edited by Greger (07/30/19 05:33 PM)
Edit Reason: noted
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313062 - 07/30/19 05:50 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8879
Loc: North San Diego County
One thing that nobody mentions in the Medicare-for-All discussion, is that Medicare as it now exists is not exactly single-payer! 29% of people signing up for Medicare select a private Advantage plan. 17% buy private MediGap insurance. 15% have Medicaid. 33% have employer or military supplemental coverage. (numbers don't total 100% because some are older than others.)

That's about 90% that have something beyond true single-payer government Medicare! So I think the private insurance companies would still be doing that even with Medicare-for-All. Does Bernie not know this?

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#313063 - 07/30/19 06:59 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14434
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I would vote for him for POTUS.


So would I, but I'm not a primary voter so I'll never get the chance. He's certainly not my first choice and other than being a nice, well spoken, white christian queer he's got nothing really to bring to the table.


I was talking about Sherrod Brown, sorry for the confusion.
I really do like Pete Buttigieg but like you, I am imagining the Middle East literally exploding in outrage. The moment he would try to attend a meeting there, it is likely the Saudi clerics would issue a fatwah to assassinate the queer infidel abomination, ditto for Putin's Russia, where it is rumored that "no gay people even exist".
Ditto for assassination attempts...must do American Christians a favor by eliminating gay cancer upon the White House - - see Vlad for details.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313132 - 08/03/19 04:17 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17159
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
One thing that nobody mentions in the Medicare-for-All discussion, is that Medicare as it now exists is not exactly single-payer! 29% of people signing up for Medicare select a private Advantage plan. 17% buy private MediGap insurance. 15% have Medicaid. 33% have employer or military supplemental coverage. (numbers don't total 100% because some are older than others.)

That's about 90% that have something beyond true single-payer government Medicare! So I think the private insurance companies would still be doing that even with Medicare-for-All. Does Bernie not know this?
I think you have hit on the central point that is being overlooked. 64% of the American population already has some version of "socialized medicine" - single payer, like Medicare, Medicaid, FEHB, Tricare, etc.; or government provided, like the VA - so we're really only talking about a third of the population (plus the uninsured). I think it would be possible to do some kind of Medicare-for-all" system to get us all the way there - although it would not be as generous as Bernie supposes.

I think the balance is in a "public option"; government subsidies for the less-than-well-off; and allowing Medigap/Medicare Advantage style products from the marketplace to supplement for others. What is most important for success, I think, is to change the system without people realizing how much has changed. The Public Option will, in the long run, supplant most existing policies - including employer-sponsored insurance - but it can be sold, now, as bringing more people into the "market", and providing "competition".

Medicare is incredibly popular, as the ACA is becoming. The longer people have to get used to what they have, the more they like it - which Obama recognized and why the GOP could never kill it. FDR remained popular for more than a decade and affected politics for most of the 20th Century. Obama's post-presidential popularity continues to grow, I think for the same reason.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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