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#312376 - 05/27/19 11:47 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
patients WOULD NOT CLIMB INTO a machine that they THOUGHT was "nuclear".


But they let you shoot them with X-Rays all day long? Which ARE nuclear in the radioactive sense and everybody knows it....

Sorry Jeff, it's just not that great an analogy. As long as you let Republicans control the dialogue you give up more than just a word.


Nope sorry, you ask the average person on the street what they think X-rays are, and they will NOT say that they are "nuclear" and furthermore the first thing out of their mouth will be that they've been told it is safe to get "a certain number of X-rays per year" by their doctors.

Well, doctors did not educate people about the MRI machines, they just rolled them out, and when people saw them, they didn't see anything that LOOKED like an X-ray machine, they saw a claustrophobia inducing HOLE, and then they heard the WORD "nuclear".

And if X-rays were called "X-radiation imaging" you'd get the same fear based response.

Sorry but it was such a "poor analogy" that the medical industry CHANGED the name. I didn't change it, the industry did.
MR vs NMR vs MRI

Gamma and X rays are electromagnetic, and therefore indirectly ionizing radiation.

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#312377 - 05/28/19 12:08 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9805
Loc: North San Diego County
NMR has been in use since the 1940's, in the form of spectroscopes. A small sample is placed in the strong electromagnet field and then bombarded with radio frequency magnetic waves. The electrons are excited into more energetic states (AKA "orbits" incorrectly) and when they decay back into the original state they give off a very specific wavelength. The various wavelengths tell you exactly what elements are present in the sample, and their amplitudes tell you the concentrations. I actually used one in the 80's to analyze lake bed sediments for a limnology course in college.

MRI put a person in a much bigger electromagnetic field and does the same thing. The difference is that NMR spectroscopes use a detector with non-directionality, while MRIs assemble an image from lots of those electron decay events. This was not practical until we had the processing power to turn millions of 2D images into 3D images, because the detectors can't tell how deep the decay event was, just left/right and up/down. They correlate detections from multiple detectors to come up with a depth, which is the big difference between a 3D image and a flat image like X-ray or ultrasound.

This image processing is the huge difference between NMR and modern MRI technology. Interesting bit of trivia: NMR detects all elements. MRI usually just detects Hydrogen, since we are so very much water.

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#312398 - 05/30/19 02:58 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Florida
Most patients don't even know what MRI stands for, nor what X-Rays are nor how they are created, we just know that the operators hide behind lead walls and we wear lead aprons during the exams...

Back in the day when "Nuclear Power" was a wonderful thing and everybody wanted to jump on the nuclear bandwagon, they changed some initials because the machine did things a little differently.

Get rid of the socialism word to appease the conservatives. Get rid of abortion to appease the conservatives. Close the borders to appease the conservatives. Keep wages low, keep women in servitude, keep wars raging, all to appease the conservatives.

Because anything else would be driving with the brakes on...
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#312399 - 05/30/19 03:10 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Florida
Oh...explain "radiation therapy: to me and why they didn't change the name....? And explain why universities still offer degrees in Nuclear Medicine? Aren't studeents afraid to take the courses? Shouldn't they change the name to something less frightening....

And, Jeff, aren't you one of the proponents of Nuclear power saving the planet?

It won't.

But what might save the planet is Democratic Socialism.
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#312400 - 05/30/19 10:49 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Mark, I agree that democratic socialism or social democracy is the way of the future. Please, don't make this out to be me scoring a hit for the Right, it isn't.
It's me noticing how advertising works, that's all.

I mean, think about it...why did the Pontiac Aztek (Walter White's car in Breaking Bad) make the list of the ugliest cars ever made and no one bought them (despite them being pretty good cars!) while the Nissan Juke is thought to be "cute" and everyone wants one?



Why is it the Microsoft Surface can outperform the iPad six ways to Sunday but everyone thinks iPads are "cool" and Microsoft "still sux"?
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#312401 - 05/30/19 10:53 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger


Get rid of the socialism word to appease the conservatives. Get rid of abortion to appease the conservatives. Close the borders to appease the conservatives. Keep wages low, keep women in servitude, keep wars raging, all to appease the conservatives.

Because anything else would be driving with the brakes on...



No, just change the label. We all have admitted that Hitler got people to like "National Socialism", yes? Was Hitler a socialist?
If he had called it "white supremacist authoritarian fascism" would he have been able to sell it?
I don't think so.

So all I am saying is, since people are so knee jerk reactionary about labels, invent a new one!
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#312402 - 05/30/19 10:54 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger

And, Jeff, aren't you one of the proponents of Nuclear power saving the planet?

It won't.





Well I never said that it would save the planet.
I have said that thorium nukes are the way of the future if we ever decide to give nuclear power a chance to help, which it would.
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#312403 - 05/30/19 11:52 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10143
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
No, just change the label.

I believe I pitched using "Americanism" recently. Let the Regressives try to corrupt that one!
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#312408 - 05/31/19 10:20 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Florida
That sounds quasi-patriotic. Republicans hold the rights to all things patriotic. They've got a lock on the religious angle too.
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#312415 - 06/01/19 01:23 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10143
Loc: One of the Mexicos
It's all about marketing...
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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