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#313172 - 08/04/19 01:43 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16054
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I'd just like someone smart for a change


Warren.
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#313187 - 08/04/19 10:16 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9145
Loc: North San Diego County
Remember Banksy's painting that spontaneously half-shredded a few minutes after it was auctioned off for 1.4 million dollars? Art experts say it is now worth double that!

Banksy Shredded a Piece of Art

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#313201 - 08/05/19 01:17 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2045
Id like some one smart and tough as hell.


Sanders

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#313206 - 08/05/19 09:37 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2782
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
We will all have our druthers, one way or another. That being said I just want Trump gone and will vote for ANYBODY that gets the nomination and, hopefully, either disgust with Trump is so great it won't make a difference or the party brightens up, stops the crap, and actually starts to behave in a manner that will allow them to win.

Yet another exercise in professional grade wishful thinking............

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#313208 - 08/05/19 10:24 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16054
Loc: Florida
The scales have tipped against Republicans even holding the Senate in 2020. It doesn't matter who they run or on what platform they might stand on. Democrats will win. Whether it's Tarot, the bones, or the cracked crystal ball, every model I'm running right now is showing this.

So is this a time to hold back? To be conservative? To nominate handsy, bumbling, hair-sniffing Uncle Joe? because he reminds us of happier times? I suspect not. It's time to be bold, it's time for the left to move left and proudly claim that ground.

We may be socialists but we're not racists.

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#313218 - 08/06/19 04:38 AM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9145
Loc: North San Diego County
I think more important, you may be socialists, but even if every lefty wins in the election, you will still have the oil tanker that is the US voters, economy, courts, etc. That's a lot of momentum, so you can't turn on a dime. You probably can't even turn much in 4 years!

For example, all those federal judges with lifetime appointments are not going to suddenly turn into socialists. All those centrist Democratic voters are not going to be very sympathetic to your programs, unless they see some benefit to themselves. Hell, there are plenty of people who already do not approve of government programs that benefit them. Even the unions have not been voting Democratic, much less socialist.

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#313219 - 08/06/19 01:44 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy
It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14873
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I think more important, you may be socialists, but even if every lefty wins in the election, you will still have the oil tanker that is the US voters, economy, courts, etc. That's a lot of momentum, so you can't turn on a dime. You probably can't even turn much in 4 years!

For example, all those federal judges with lifetime appointments are not going to suddenly turn into socialists. All those centrist Democratic voters are not going to be very sympathetic to your programs, unless they see some benefit to themselves. Hell, there are plenty of people who already do not approve of government programs that benefit them. Even the unions have not been voting Democratic, much less socialist.


I've been accused by some of incrementalism for saying much less.
But I am not in favor of incrementalism, I am just acknowledging that people are notoriously slow to embrace change.
We can nudge them or we can inspire them but we cannot "require" them to do it.
I think we need to become a lot better at inspiring them.
The Donald seems very skilled at "inspiring" his admirers.
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#313221 - 08/06/19 04:53 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16054
Loc: Florida
So then...we should make every effort to elect the most centrist candidates, who will, with the Republicans, resist any change that benefits the working class. Resist any change that addresses global climate change, income inequality or human rights issues? Because it's too hard?

Joe Biden doesn't even approve of legal weed.

Because we probably can't accomplish everything we want we should just forget about it. Might as well vote republican with that logic.

And you don't want to be accused of incrementalism.
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#313227 - 08/06/19 06:25 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16054
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I think we need to become a lot better at inspiring them.
The Donald seems very skilled at "inspiring" his admirers.

Trump is a con man doing what con men do. I'm not looking for that kind of candidate.
Bernie is extremely skilled at inspiring his admirers. Warren is proving to be quite inspirational as well.

Biden actually has no admirers to inspire.

Face it...It's Biden, Warren, or Sanders. If you think the lefties are a bad choice then that puts you in the Biden camp.



Edited by Greger (08/06/19 06:27 PM)
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#313228 - 08/06/19 07:06 PM Re: Democratic Socialism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16054
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Even the unions have not been voting Democratic, much less socialist.


Union workers are often better paid than their counterparts in non-union states. Relatively well off comparatively and often invested in preserving the status quo to stay that way.

And what exactly do you mean when you say socialism?

A living wage, healthcare and education. That's what Democratic Socialists want. That's also what unions want.

But do union members want everyone to have all those goodies? Nope...that would drive up prices. And taxes...

Unions are a thing of the past, just like Joe Biden. A social democracy makes them obsolete because everyone is paid union scale as per government regulation. Everybody gets "union benefits" as per government regulation.
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