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#313299 - 08/09/19 03:46 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1776
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
In case anyone missed it this week:



Over 5.6 million views in two days.

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#313300 - 08/09/19 03:48 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
You keep proposing these odd choices.
How's this then. Would you prefer to be raped by a friend or a stranger, Jeff?

Many prefer to stay home and not have to make that choice any longer. That's been getting the most votes.

90,000 people that voted in the last presidential election in Michigan left the top line empty.

Hillary lost the state by 10,000 votes.

But lets talk of Russian interference........



Are you asking me to repeat Post #313289 or are you insisting that I am a Hillary supporter?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313304 - 08/09/19 03:57 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8794
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
90,000 people that voted in the last presidential election in Michigan left the top line empty.

Hillary lost the state by 10,000 votes.


The result of Republicans' smear campaign over the last 30 years. None of those folks left the line blank because Hillary was too Republican. They left it blank because they didn't want to vote for Crooked Hillary, courtesy of Trump and his fellow Republicans and their Russian allies. I witnessed that personally during the runup to the election: The internet forums were absolutely clogged with "crooked Hillary" posts, many obviously Russian.

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#313314 - 08/09/19 04:31 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15536
Loc: Florida
Quote:
are you insisting that I am a Hillary supporter?

If you're looking for a Hillary supporter, look no further cause I'm your guy! We'd be walkin' in high cotton if she'da won!
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#313315 - 08/09/19 04:32 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
are you insisting that I am a Hillary supporter?

If you're looking for a Hillary supporter, look no further cause I'm your guy! We'd be walkin' in high cotton if she'da won!


Well, I was a Bernie guy and so was Karen but you'd never know it to hear some folks speak. Thank God they don't in point of fact speak for me.

I pulled the H lever because I was terrified at the prospect of the Orange Menace.
Apparently I shall never be forgiven for doing so.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313316 - 08/09/19 04:43 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41847
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
are you insisting that I am a Hillary supporter?

If you're looking for a Hillary supporter, look no further cause I'm your guy! We'd be walkin' in high cotton if she'da won!

I never was. I've always said her unlikability factor was what did her in and gave us Trump.

What did it for me was the Kosovo Airport lie.

Yes Hillary Clinton was the most experienced and qualified candidate to be POTUS in 2016 - clearly that didn't matter to a lot us. Hmm

I knew Trump would be bad, but I never thought THIS bad. At least we don't have to hear the Conservative perpetual daily whining about how bad Hillary is at being POTUS.

America will recover when Trump is indicted and tried for his crimes. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#313323 - 08/09/19 11:55 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1776
No. I'm not.
What I'm saying is when you get people saying F#ck it! and leave the top line blank in larger numbers than what the candidate lost by in what was a formally reliable blue state, as many other reliably blue states were and you lost as well, you might have a problem? You might want to reflect on why?

Or not.

Russia didn't de-industrialize the upper midwest. Saying it was a long game by the Russians is so much Lib deflection. Libs are good at passing the buck. They've had decades of practice.


Edited by chunkstyle (08/09/19 03:43 PM)

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#313326 - 08/09/19 05:09 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15536
Loc: Florida
Despite all your meandering hate for Clinton and the Democrats, despite your claim that they lost because Clinton wasn't "likeable" enough. I will point out again that she won by 3 million votes.

And I will point out that Bernie is not particularly "likeable".

And if Bernie should happen to be on the ticket there are a lot of voters who would leave the top line blank because they won't vote for a Socialist. Just the facts.

There was nothing "flawed" about Clinton. She was a great candidate and would have been a great president. She's not a great orator, she's not a great campaigner, but she's friendly, affable and fun to be around. She carry's hot sauce in her purse in case it's not available. She enjoys a drink or three and lively conversation. She knows the names of every world leader and has met with most of them. She understands global politics and global trade.

This was an opportunity lost for leftist America on the same order as Al Gore's loss to Bush.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#313327 - 08/09/19 05:25 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1776
So were back to 'she'd be great to have a beer with'? More 'electability'?

O.K. That's a rational and a strategy I guess. Kinda got crushed by the results though.

I don't hate the Clintons any more than I hate any other class enemy and white collared criminals.

Meandering hate? Gimme a break. It's been meandering excuses over 2016 as far as I've read. No real early morning, clear eyed critique. Just a lot of huffing and puffing and 'yeah, but russia, racism, etc....'

Couldn't do $15.00/hr.
Took more than a quarter million for a Goldman boardroom speech.
Would have followed the same neoliberal policies that has been pursued by her type for decades now.

Those are valid criticisms.

You come back with "She carry's hot sauce in her purse.."

Uhhhh, O.K....

Can't argue with that.

You got me!

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#313329 - 08/09/19 05:47 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
No. I'm not.
What I'm saying is when you get people saying F#ck it! and leave the top line blank in larger numbers than what the candidate lost by in what was a formally reliable blue state, as many other reliably blue states were and you lost as well, you might have a problem? You might want to reflect on why?

Or not.

Russia didn't de-industrialize the upper midwest. Saying it was a long game by the Russians is so much Lib deflection. Libs are good at passing the buck. They've had decades of practice.


What deindustrialized the US? It damn sure wasn't a couple of politicians because lawmakers cannot legislate whether or not a greedy multinational corporation decides to manufacture here or not.
True, they can reward them for doing so, and even erect tax penalties for not doing so.

But in the end, trade agreements get decided by both Republicans and Democrats and the fact is, Republicans were better at being "on message" than the Democrats were.
And there is no binary political answer as to why greed is more powerful. It just is, to the point where it transcends politics.
Had Democrats opposed trade agreements with every fiber of their being, another "trade agreement" with an exploding cigar factor baked in would have gotten the job done anyway.

I do not argue that Democrats stayed loyal to the blue collar community. They didn't. They tossed the blue collar community overboard in favor of Wall Street elites and wealthy elites.
They did embrace neoliberalism.
And to a certain extent, evidenced by Joe Biden, they still do.

The Tea Party moved a lot of traditional Republicans into the unemployment line. I support whatever faction in my party can manage to push neoliberal Democrats into the same line. But in order for that to happen, my vote is needed. There is where we differ.

What deindustrialized the US? An idea did it, an idea first voiced in The Powell Memo, which was authored by a Nixon pick for the SCOTUS. Lewis Powell, a tobacco industry attorney and corporate free speech champion, authored "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System", an anti New Deal essay which put corporate America on notice that it had better begin fighting back against labor unions, consumer protection, even higher education itself.

It is a fool's errand to minimize the effect of The Powell Memo.
It provided fertile ground for an explosion of right wing think tanks. It was buttressed in numerous SCOTUS decisions like First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti and it energized the lobbyist industry at a level several orders of magnitude greater than The Declaration of Independence itself.
Indeed, The Powell Memo was a kind of "declaration of war" against the entire Left and the Left had nothing to counter it.

Blaming the Democratic Party for this sea change is like blaming Ford Motor Co exclusively for air pollution.

Moving the goalposts to suggest that Democrats blame Russia for our deindustrialization is a wild blunder which no one, even you, cannot back up. If there is a single Democratic politician suggesting such a thing, I'd like to see you drag them to the peanut gallery.

And like I said repeatedly, you offer no alternative except to stick with another four years of Trump.
No sale, buddy.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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