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#312725 - 06/30/19 02:06 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1957
Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Similar to the hyperventilating going on with the 'Russia Meddling' (T.M.) would somebody please explain how this changes anything?
The candidate nominating process, particularly in the Democratic party, is just as rigged as far as I can tell, but here it goes again. A strange indignation that has time for party rivalries and competition but none for candidate selections.

Looks like a contradiction.
Smells like hypocrisy.

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#312728 - 06/30/19 04:30 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: chunkstyle]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 505
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Looks like a contradiction.
Smells like hypocrisy.


A Jaundice Eye?
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#312729 - 06/30/19 05:21 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1957
What exactly is being argued about with this latest supposed indignation.

Who is the aggrieved and why is it only focused on this particular aspect of a spectrum of undemocratic practices.....

What's the fuss about really?

Just asking.

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#312731 - 06/30/19 09:19 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17185
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
What exactly is being argued about with this latest supposed indignation.

Who is the aggrieved and why is it only focused on this particular aspect of a spectrum of undemocratic practices.....

What's the fuss about really?

Just asking.
I have a hard time believing you are serious here. Who are aggrieved here are the voters, of all stripes, whose choice and voting power is being removed by partisan actors. You do recognize how gerrymandering works, right? Your complaints about political party workings are inapposite. What is relevant is the ability of any party to effectively eliminate democratic elections. Put it this way: until there is a massive political shift in any particular jurisdiction, the currently dominant party (primarily Republican), even in the electoral minority, can entrench their candidates in office without meaningful recourse by their electorate. Fewer than half the States allow citizen initiatives, and even fewer for constitutional amendment.

North Carolina is virtually a 50-50 State, yet its delegation is 10-3 because of gerrymandering. That cannot change so long as the citizenry cannot change the makeup of the legislature. In the best scenario such change will be incremental - a seat here or there - but not wholesale. It will require a sea change politically, and that may not occur in our lifetimes, or our children's.

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#312734 - 07/01/19 02:15 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1957
Why not. Really, whats the difference with voters being disenfranchised, if that is what were talking about here?
This is Amerika where the political history is voter disenfranchisement. You think it's not been happening on the left for years?
Sure, gerrymandering will work it's way into politics in a myriad of ways but it's the same ol' same ol' for the currently disenfranchised.


Edited by chunkstyle (07/01/19 02:19 PM)

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#312735 - 07/01/19 02:30 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15801
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Who are aggrieved here are the voters, of all stripes, whose choice and voting power is being removed by partisan actors.

As they have ever been aggrieved by wealthy partisans in smoke filled rooms rigging things in their own favor. There is nothing new or surprising about this decision, especially in this politically charged and partisan era.

We will rise above Trump as the Germans have risen above Hitler. Unfortunately we will witness a lot more atrocities before some semblance of justice prevails.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#312760 - 07/04/19 07:10 AM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8963
Loc: North San Diego County
I read a nice article on Slate, saying that Democrats can gerrymander the hell out of blue states now and counter all the Republican gerrymandering. The Supreme Court says it is okay, so stop trying to be fair and go for it! Democrats have mostly been promoting fair redistricting recently, but with the history of Republican mischief (not to mention the new evidence) they can stop their unilateral disarmament policy.

Funny thing is that US House Representatives don't do the redistricting. State politicians do, and state supreme courts ultimately rule on the map acceptability. So it is an imperfect feedback loop: If you have a Democratic majority in a state, you can get new district lines drawn to favor Democrats. And to get a Democratic majority elected in a state, maybe all you need is a bunch of Republican overreach and criminality at the highest levels.

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#312763 - 07/04/19 03:01 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6979
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
State Governors Republican 27-23
State Senates Republican 32-18
State Houses Republican 30-19-1


Quote:
If you have a Democratic majority in a state, you can get new district lines drawn to favor Democrats. And to get a Democratic majority elected in a state

So if pigs can fly ...

While this may appear to be simple to turn around, I suspect the real problem is deep seated and requires at least 3 generations of education to eliminate ignorance and it's corollary bigotry. Take your statement and replace "Democrat" with "Republican". This will not be easy nor simple.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#312765 - 07/04/19 03:38 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15801
Loc: Florida
It took six years of legal battles and public outcry here.

It also took six years of legal battles for a Florida couple to win the right to grow vegetables in their front yard...so, yeah. It could easily take several generations for any real positive change to occur.

But it will...Trump is a setback but, barring nuclear war or global climate catastrophe, he is a setback we can overcome. He is, in fact, a setback we should be able to capitalize on.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#312766 - 07/04/19 04:05 PM Re: Supreme Court vs. The People [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8963
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Take your statement and replace "Democrat" with "Republican".


Republicans have already been doing this for decades. Actually, both Parties did it for decades, until Democrats decided they were too noble to gerrymander several years back. And look at the result.

In politics nobility is nice, but you have to actually win to make any changes.

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