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#313116 - 08/02/19 04:30 PM Re: They have names [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Dershowitz had a reasonable point in his essay about age of consent, and that is that America's many state laws are insane.


I think that the concept of "emancipation" should figure in as a factor. Emancipation of a person of minor age effectively makes them an adult for the purpose of agreeing to consent, making purchases, taking responsibility for their actions, etc.

That is a difficult route to follow because in cases where a minor may leave home and act in a responsible and self-sustaining manner for a number of months, if they leave without an explicit agreement, a child might be declared a runaway, or a parent may still be charged with neglect or otherwise be held responsible for consequences of the actions of their minor child.

If the minor is still living at home and is still dependent upon their parents, they're hardly what can be called "emancipated". It seems to boil down to what the courts call "best interests".
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#313117 - 08/02/19 04:59 PM Re: They have names [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15538
Loc: Florida
Society has only recently decided that the line between adult and youth philanderings be drawn so harshly. My grandmother, a properly raised Methodist girl from Indiana, married my 26 year old grandpa when she was 14. It wasn't unusual and certainly wasn't illegal.


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#313118 - 08/02/19 06:48 PM Re: They have names [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Society has only recently decided that the line between adult and youth philanderings be drawn so harshly. My grandmother, a properly raised Methodist girl from Indiana, married my 26 year old grandpa when she was 14. It wasn't unusual and certainly wasn't illegal.




Understood, hence my earlier reference to my maternal grandmother.
However it can be said that fourteen or fifteen in those times was a lot different from the same numerical age today.

I guarantee you my Mamma-Mia was a lot more mature and adult at fifteen than even I was at nineteen.

Also, most girls in that time period were done with school by age twelve or fourteen, seeing as how it was considered a wasteful extravagance to educate women beyond the basic "three R's" and home economics, sewing and cooking.
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The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313120 - 08/02/19 08:02 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
BTW, is it even remotely possible that the Dersh may have written his Op-Ed to insert plausibility for his relationship with Epstein?
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#313122 - 08/02/19 09:06 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8795
Loc: North San Diego County
We have been moving the age of majority up towards 18, while at the same time girls are entering puberty at younger and younger ages. Back in grandma's time, plenty of girls did not start their periods until they were 18. Now 10 is not unusual, particularly among chunky girls. Of course, back in the depression there probably were not many chunky girls!

And sure, Dersh may have had some experiences with young girls back when he was Epstein's friend and lawyer. I don't know anything about that except I think he admitted as such. But there are some cases that are icky, but not illegal, where the girl is decades younger than the man but at or above the age of consent in that state. And there are actually more states that set their AOC at 16 than any other age.

When Rush Limbaugh was caught traveling to Puerto Rico with somebody else's Viagra prescription, their AOC was 14. Miami is crawling with hookers. I wonder why he had to go to Puerto Rico to get some, when that was the only place of Earth where you would not be charged with sex tourism by the feds for 14 and 15 year olds?

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#313123 - 08/02/19 09:37 PM Re: They have names [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
We have been moving the age of majority up towards 18, while at the same time girls are entering puberty at younger and younger ages. Back in grandma's time, plenty of girls did not start their periods until they were 18. Now 10 is not unusual, particularly among chunky girls. Of course, back in the depression there probably were not many chunky girls!

And sure, Dersh may have had some experiences with young girls back when he was Epstein's friend and lawyer. I don't know anything about that except I think he admitted as such. But there are some cases that are icky, but not illegal, where the girl is decades younger than the man but at or above the age of consent in that state. And there are actually more states that set their AOC at 16 than any other age.

When Rush Limbaugh was caught traveling to Puerto Rico with somebody else's Viagra prescription, their AOC was 14. Miami is crawling with hookers. I wonder why he had to go to Puerto Rico to get some, when that was the only place of Earth where you would not be charged with sex tourism by the feds for 14 and 15 year olds?


Yes, there's no doubt that puberty has been assisted by all the hormonal chicken nuggets and other hormone laden foods our kids have been eating.
But come on, puberty in the 21st century isn't even an indicator of adulthood when said pubescent pre-teen is still very close to being a toddler by most emotional and intellectual measures.

Today's hikikomori teens are sometimes not even ready to grasp adult responsibilities in their twenties.
They might still be the minority but the phenomenon is growing.
We've infantilized kids for the last forty years, most of the time not even realizing it.

There's no way to compare the fourteen year olds of the early 20th century to today. Average life expectancy was twenty years shorter, adult responsibilities were pushed on them early on. Some even had to work factory jobs as young as nine.

I agree that human bodies are reaching maturity at an alarmingly young age but some fourteen year old wandering around with a Pokemon game is no comparison to a kid from eighty years ago who knew how to run a home, care for infants, hunt, fish, shoot and defend themselves against predators and adults, and earn a meager paycheck by the sweat of their brow.
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#313382 - 08/10/19 07:42 PM Re: They have names [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8795
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
We've infantilized kids for the last forty years, most of the time not even realizing it.


We've sown the wind, and now we are reaping the whirlwind. We are inundated with 20 year old infants, living in mom's basement and depending on her support. Let's stop doing that.

When I was 10, I used to take the city bus about 5 miles to a magnet school, and take it to get home. The neighborhood kids would get on the same bus on Saturdays to go 10 miles to the city zoo, where we could get in free. We would also go to movies, parks, and such. We would go down in the canyon and hike despite the presence of rattlesnakes. Our parents warned us about perverts, so we were ready for any adult approaching us in a too friendly manner. Never happened.

Now parents fear to let their 18 year old kids go off to college. I've actually heard of more than one parent who would not let their kid go out of fear somebody would "turn them gay"!

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#313387 - 08/10/19 08:13 PM Re: They have names [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14347
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


Now parents fear to let their 18 year old kids go off to college. I've actually heard of more than one parent who would not let their kid go out of fear somebody would "turn them gay"!


Actually there's a huge number of people who still think that you can catch the gay "germ" and learn to be gay, or accidentally be "turned gay" or get coerced into being gay.
Naturally I am curious as to when these people "caught" the straight
"germ" that "turned them straight" and "what if they get cured of being straight"...then what?
Why hasn't the entire globe turned gay by now?
Come to think of it, why haven't all three leaf clovers been replaced by four leaf clovers?
Clovers have been around longer than the human race and they sure as Hell reproduce faster, too.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313455 - 08/11/19 09:02 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8795
Loc: North San Diego County
I think there's a tiny bit of truth in there somewhere. Most people are "born straight", but some percentage are born absolutely gay. They may not know it until they reach puberty and begin to have sexual attraction to other people. They may know from an early age. But there are also a certain percentage that are born bisexual. When they reach puberty they can be attracted to people of either sex. If one of those bi people has positive experiences with either same sex or different sex others, and never has any positive experiences with the other sex, they get in that habit. Probably for life. We tend to imprint on our early sexual experiences.

So that would be a case of a gay person "turning" another gay. But that other person was bi to begin with.

Then there are sexual predators who are more predator than sexual. Like the few pedophiles who don't care which gender their victims are. Or the hypersexual psychopaths who rape women on the outside and rape other men in prison.

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#313457 - 08/11/19 09:12 PM Re: They have names [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41847
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Alan Dershowitz is not a great legal mind or "great scholar." He's a barely sentient nudist who goes on TV to give Donald Trump a rim job. That's it.

Media need to stop booking that assclown.
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