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#313571 - 08/13/19 03:27 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17110
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The Constitutional Convention of 1787 was held because the Articles of Confederation didn't work. Our Constitution is a compilation of many documents to limit government starting with the Magna Carta.
This is a consistent, and again consistently wrong, refrain of conservatives. That was the position of the "anti-federalists". Who, explicitly and unquestionably, lost the argument in the creation of the Constitution, as they opposed a strong central government, but the Hamiltonians won out. That Jefferson eventually saw the error of his ways is often ignored as "inconvenient".

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#313574 - 08/13/19 03:50 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14327
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Fatass Trump:

Quote:
Good people on both sides.

Nope, there were not. Neo-NAZIs, white supremacists, Alt-Right are not good people.

Hmm

Ever drive a Volkswagen (the People's Wagon)? It was created by the Nazis. Do you support Planned Parenthood? It's founder, Margaret Sanger, was a white supremacist.


One of the absolute worst deathtraps ever made.
Swing-arm rear suspension that can roll the car at fifteen miles per hour, a #3 cylinder permanently starved for cooling by design, splash lubrication, and who's bright idea was it to separate vehicle wiring from the trunk mounted gas tank with a piece of cardboard while the gas cap was located INSIDE the trunk?

Yours truly circa 1973


The only reason people bought them was they were cheap as hell and got 26 mpg. They sure didn't buy them because they were good cars.
Ralph Nader was eager to kill the Corvair but the Nazi deathtrap was much worse.

So what if Margaret Sanger was a white supremacist?
That doesn't mean that the people who work there today are all white supremacists, it means a misguided woman accidentally did something useful and it grew legs and went on to provide essential healthcare and family planning for several generations of families.

Dr. Werner von Braun was a Nazi but once captured, he knew what side his bread was buttered on and said so. The Americans were superior, and he wanted to be an American, and lead America to victory in the space race. He wasn't interested in Hitler's ideology, he was interested in rockets.

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

What people call the Alt-Right are really leftists who are erroneously considered to be right wingers.


This one is absurd. You're basically saying that all those people marching with swastikas saw this poster and went to the wrong rally?



So, if they were actually left wingers (but carrying swastikas) why were they fighting Antifa? Senator, turn off Fox News.
It's polluting your ability to think critically!
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313575 - 08/13/19 03:52 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Senator Hatrack Online   happy
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Fatass Trump:

Quote:
Good people on both sides.

Nope, there were not. Neo-NAZIs, white supremacists, Alt-Right are not good people.

Hmm

Ever drive a Volkswagen (the People's Wagon)? It was created by the Nazis. Do you support Planned Parenthood? It's founder, Margaret Sanger, was a white supremacist. What people call the Alt-Right are really leftists who are erroneously considered to be right wingers.


Who was not a White Supremacist/Raciest in the late 1800 and early 1900 hundreds?

Yes, she advocated birth control which is not abortion. She advocated contraception as a way to avoid the need for abortion. She also founded a birth control clinic in Harlem in 1921. Does not mean she was not raciest it just means she at least tried to treat all fairly. Oh, I do support a women's right to choose and not the churches' and governments' assertion they have a right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body

If Margaret Sanger was not a white supremacist why did she speak at a KKK rally? She was a eugenicist. Eugenics is the pseudoscience of trying to create a master race of humans by selective breeding.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/planned-parenthood-founder-spoke-to-kkk-but-photo-is-fake/
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313576 - 08/13/19 04:02 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14327
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

If Margaret Sanger was not a white supremacist why did she speak at a KKK rally? She was a eugenicist. Eugenics is the pseudoscience of trying to create a master race of humans by selective breeding.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/planned-parenthood-founder-spoke-to-kkk-but-photo-is-fake/


Using your logic, we can play the "sins of the father" game all the way back to Adam and Eve and all the way forward to the present day.
Did either of your parents ever kill a prize chicken for dinner?
Ergo, you support animal abuse and so do your kids!

Margaret Sanger is dead. Birth control, family planning and women's health services are very much alive. Planned Parenthood offices, which used to be segregated in the Jim Crow era, aren't segregated today.

My pediatrician's office on Connecticut Avenue in Washington DC had a segregated waiting room, which my mother uncomfortably ignored until I asked about it at age six. She promptly switched doctors and we never saw that doctor again.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313578 - 08/13/19 04:08 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15493
Loc: Florida
Y'know, the Civil war wasn't about racism. All white people back then were racist. Most of them still are. You can be a racist and be against slavery. Hell, you can be a racist and be against racism. Lincoln was a racist. This business of judging historical characters by modern society's standards is a bit whack. Eugenics was cutting edge science at one time, today we have gene splicing. Ethical issues like this usually iron themselves out over time.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#313580 - 08/13/19 04:09 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17110
Originally Posted By: rporter314
The sole intent of all documents leading to the US Constitution was not to limit government by size but to prevent government from enslaving its citizenry.
WOOT!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#313582 - 08/13/19 04:19 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17110
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Anything that is not expressly authorized by it is to be either eliminated or done by the various state or local governments.
  • Women's right to vote
  • Minorites right to vote
  • Gay Marriage
  • Due process for non-whites
  • Women's right to control their bodies
  • The right to own land if non-white male
Thanks for the reminder of why Conservatism is a racist and bigoted ideology, Senator Hatrack. smile

This comment is another example of judging our Constitution by today's standards. When it was written the right to vote, even when it was limited to white males, was an extremely radical idea! That extending the right to vote to women and minorities was unfortunately something that took time to do. The state of Wyoming gave women the right to vote before our federal government did. That is why I said there are somethings the states should do. The Fifth Amendment is color blind. Sadly the enforcement of it was not. Again that is something that took time to accomplish. Ever since the days when we were colonies of England people of color could and did own land. Gay marriage is a long overdue idea but it is not banned by our Constitution. It isn't because marriage, gay or straight, is not mentioned in our Constitution. The idea of women controlling their bodies is also a recent one, which it is why it is not mention in our Constitution either.
Not much to disagree with, here, my friend, but not very "conservative", either. Just reasonable and rational. The late, unlamented Justice Scalia would have seen it differently, though. He had no ken with those radical notions of "inherent rights". The founders did, of course, but he only followed their prescriptions when convenient.

Once upon a time (and still in some circles) I was considered a conservative. But the reactionary revanchists that masquerade under that rubric now are unrecognizable to the conservative I was then.

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#313583 - 08/13/19 04:20 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14327
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Eugenics is the pseudoscience of trying to create a master race of humans by selective breeding.


Actually it's not pseudoscience, it's very real science, however the notion that it can create a master race is questionable, but selective breeding isn't questionable at all because humans selectively breed all the time. It's just that normally it would be the two humans in question making the choices rather than an outside entity.

But even then, outside people have been making those choices for millennia. That's what arranged marriages are all about. The matchmaker or the two families agree on who will marry.
That IS selective breeding in every respect.

And then we get to the very definition of "master race" itself.
Is a master race put together with the intention of its members being smarter, healthier and more desirable, or is it an effort to confine the genetics, or is global domination the objective?

The first one is just human nature. People naturally want to breed with smarter, healthier and more desirable partners.
Water however, seeks its own level, doesn't it?

The other two are both foolish and dangerous because they've both been tried countless times. The latter racial restriction, is downright dangerous because Nature doesn't tolerate racial purity.

Eventually such restrictions begin to turn out a race of retarded people. See Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, where insular communities in Arizona, Colorado and Utah are experiencing profound mental disabilities in an alarming number of births.

_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313585 - 08/13/19 04:29 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Online   happy
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
[quote=pdx rick]
Fatass Trump:

Quote:
Good people on both sides.

Nope, there were not. Neo-NAZIs, white supremacists, Alt-Right are not good people.

Hmm

Ever drive a Volkswagen (the People's Wagon)? It was created by the Nazis. Do you support Planned Parenthood? It's founder, Margaret Sanger, was a white supremacist.


Quote:
One of the absolute worst deathtraps ever made.
Swing-arm rear suspension that can roll the car at fifteen miles per hour, a #3 cylinder permanently starved for cooling by design, splash lubrication, and who's bright idea was it to separate vehicle wiring from the trunk mounted gas tank with a piece of cardboard while the gas cap was located INSIDE the trunk?

Yours truly circa 1973


The only reason people bought them was they were cheap as hell and got 26 mpg. They sure didn't buy them because they were good cars.
Ralph Nader was eager to kill the Corvair but the Nazi deathtrap was much worse.

The Volkswagen was not a shining example of German engineering. But it was designed by the Nazis.

Quote:
So what if Margaret Sanger was a white supremacist?
That doesn't mean that the people who work there today are all white supremacists, it means a misguided woman accidentally did something useful and it grew legs and went on to provide essential healthcare and family planning for several generations of families.

What Margaret Sanger was is worse than being a white supremacist. She was a eugenicist. Eugenics is the pseudoscience of trying to create a (white) master race by selective breeding. The Nazis were big fans of the American Eugenicists. So much so that they used the Jim Crow laws as a guide for their race laws. (This is the second time I've posted this link.)

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1796

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

What people call the Alt-Right are really leftists who are erroneously considered to be right wingers.


Quote:
This one is absurd. You're basically saying that all those people marching with swastikas saw this poster and went to the wrong rally?



Quote:
So, if they were actually left wingers (but carrying swastikas) why were they fighting Antifa? Senator, turn off Fox News.
It's polluting your ability to think critically!

One does not need to carry or wear a swastika to be antisemitic. (This is NOT red baiting but a statement of facts!) The Communists, and Russians, have a long history of antisemitism.
https://stmuhistorymedia.org/the-communi...comment-page-1/
While the Communist's antisemitism ebbed and flowed it was still a part of their world view. That is why Jews in the USSR who wanted to emigrate to Israel were, if not put in the gulags, harassed and discriminated against. The idea that Antifa is an anti-fascist organization is a lie! They are a modern day version of Mussolini's Black Shirts.

In regards to my watching FOX News you have made a mistake that many people of the left have made while in political discussions with me. In order to watch FOX News it is necessary to have either a subscription to cable or satellite TV. I do not have either of them. Therefore I cannot watch FOX News. This comment is not say that you are leftist but that you have made a mistake about what I watch on TV. I don't watch TV.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#313588 - 08/13/19 04:52 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Senator Hatrack Online   happy
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Alchemy was the pseudoscience that became chemistry. Eugenics is the pseudoscience that has become genetic research.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
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