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#313613 - 08/13/19 06:42 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Hitler detested socialists because they opposed him not because of any ideological differences.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/oct/17/20031017-110534-8149r/
Prescott Bush was indicted but he was never convicted of trading with the enemy.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313614 - 08/13/19 06:44 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
"Oskar Schindler was not an employee of the state and his factories were not government property." I did not say that Schindler's business was the property of the state. What said was that is so heavily regulated by the state that Schindler was owner in name only.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313615 - 08/13/19 06:49 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Why not? Who knows what Nazism is better than a Nazi? A weak argument must discredit the source because it cannot refute what the source says.


Sure it can!

And next, here's the verdict of an eminent expert researcher and one of the greatest experts on the Nazi phenomenon, the historian Alan Bullock:

Quote:
"While Hitler's attitude towards liberalism was one of contempt, towards Marxism he showed an implacable hostility… Ignoring the profound differences between Communism and Social Democracy in practice and the bitter hostility between the rival working class parties, he saw in their common ideology the embodiment of all that he detested -- mass democracy and a leveling egalitarianism as opposed to the authoritarian state and the rule of an elite; equality and friendship among peoples as opposed to racial inequality and the domination of the strong; class solidarity versus national unity; internationalism versus nationalism".

Alan Bullock, "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny", abridged edition, (New York: HarperCollins, 1971).


Hitler’s values: radical inequality, the fostering of a tiny elite, belief in ancestral notions of nationhood and racial purity – were values of the far right, not the egalitarian values of socialism or liberalism. Since when do leftists speak of racial purity?

The actual socialists who emerged after Marx wanted three things -

1. Removal of classes.
2. World socialism.
3. Distribution of capital.

There was a huge gap between rich & poor in Tsarist Russia. The Bolsheviks sought to eliminate this division (yes, by violent revolt). After they succeeded, the Bolsheviks wanted to take the Revolution worldwide. Heard of 'Comintern'? No race, no nations, only socialism.

Before attaining dictatorial power Hitler allied himself with political conservatives, he had a fan club of conservatives outside Germany, he was largely funded by union-hating big business (like Ford) that saw him as the man to smash the socialists, and he was appeased internationally in part because of misguided conservatives who thought him a worthwhile ally.

Himmler, well before the Wannsee Conference, and after the "Night of the Long Knives", which eventuated the disposal of any and all left-sympathizing party members, including Ernst Roehm, about 1938, enunciated to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.):

Quote:
"We are of the right and of order. We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."


Sure, the Nazis called themselves the 'National Socialists'.
It is however, a total misnomer.
It's like the World Series, or Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or 'ethics in gaming journalism'. The Nazis were fascists. Indisputably. They drew their ideology from Italy's fascists, who arose in reaction to the Left.
The Italian Right, still mired in 19th century thought, could not tackle the explosion in left-wing organization.
Mussolini gives us the first fascist platform - national/racial superiority, rearmament & expansion, and consolidation of capital.
The Italian Fascists appropriated, wholesale, Roman imagery, such as the 'fasces', to evoke renewed national pride & a sense of superiority.

The Italian Fascists sought to expand & reclaim historically Italian lands (mirroring a large portion of the old Roman Empire).
Fascist government formed corporate cartels, enriching the few.
Hitler and his Deutscher Arbeiter Partei buddies see this and decide that they need to steal support from actual socialists. So the DAP rebadged themselves as the NSDAP.
It's like adding the word "NEW!" to a product name.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313616 - 08/13/19 06:50 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
"Oskar Schindler was not an employee of the state and his factories were not government property." I did not say that Schindler's business was the property of the state. What said was that is so heavily regulated by the state that Schindler was owner in name only.


As for redistribution of capital, do I really need to explain the difference between collectivization and cartels, Mr Tax Haven? ROTFMOL
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313618 - 08/13/19 06:55 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
Now let's talk about Henry Ford, one of Hitler's greatest admirers in the United States.

Ford first voiced his anti-Semitic leanings in 1915, around the time of his "Peace Ship" episode.

Eventually, his belief that the "International Jew" was the source of the world's problems led him to conduct a campaign against them in the pages of his newspaper; The Dearborn Independent.

The articles in Ford's newspaper blamed the Jews for everything from the Bolshevik Revolution and the First World War to bootlegged liquor and cheap movies.
They also accused the Jews of conspiring to enslave Christianity and destroy the "Anglo-Saxon" way of life. The articles were later gathered into book form and published under the title: The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem.

This book was translated into 16 languages, and was to have a profound influence upon the growing Nazi movement in Germany. Eventually, Ford publicly apologized for the articles in light of a legal suit. However; he continued to express his anti-Semitic beliefs in his private circles.

In the 1930's, he hired many fascist sympathizers, accepted an award from Hitler; and engaged in business ventures in Nazi Germany.

Do you know where Henry Ford got his source material for "The International Jew" ??
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313620 - 08/13/19 07:05 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#313622 - 08/13/19 07:10 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack


I own it.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313623 - 08/13/19 07:11 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Now let's talk about Henry Ford, one of Hitler's greatest admirers in the United States.

Ford first voiced his anti-Semitic leanings in 1915, around the time of his "Peace Ship" episode.

Eventually, his belief that the "International Jew" was the source of the world's problems led him to conduct a campaign against them in the pages of his newspaper; The Dearborn Independent.

The articles in Ford's newspaper blamed the Jews for everything from the Bolshevik Revolution and the First World War to bootlegged liquor and cheap movies.
They also accused the Jews of conspiring to enslave Christianity and destroy the "Anglo-Saxon" way of life. The articles were later gathered into book form and published under the title: The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem.

This book was translated into 16 languages, and was to have a profound influence upon the growing Nazi movement in Germany. Eventually, Ford publicly apologized for the articles in light of a legal suit. However; he continued to express his anti-Semitic beliefs in his private circles.

In the 1930's, he hired many fascist sympathizers, accepted an award from Hitler; and engaged in business ventures in Nazi Germany.

Do you know where Henry Ford got his source material for "The International Jew" ??

It is interesting that you can see the American connection to the Nazi with Henry Ford but cannot see them when it comes to the American Eugenics movement. Could that inability to see the connection be due to the fact the eugenicists were Democrats? Or the connection of FDR to Fascism? FDR was definitely NOT a right winger!
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#313624 - 08/13/19 07:13 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack


I own it.

Then you should be able see that they hatred of each other's ideology was due to the similarities of them not their differences.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#313625 - 08/13/19 07:16 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
"Oskar Schindler was not an employee of the state and his factories were not government property." I did not say that Schindler's business was the property of the state. What said was that is so heavily regulated by the state that Schindler was owner in name only.


As for redistribution of capital, do I really need to explain the difference between collectivization and cartels, Mr Tax Haven? ROTFMOL

To redistribute capital it has to be created first. When the government owns the means of production or regulates it so much that the government is the de facto owner the creation of capital is very difficult.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
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