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#313629 - 08/13/19 07:40 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
"Oskar Schindler was not an employee of the state and his factories were not government property." I did not say that Schindler's business was the property of the state. What said was that is so heavily regulated by the state that Schindler was owner in name only.


As for redistribution of capital, do I really need to explain the difference between collectivization and cartels, Mr Tax Haven? ROTFMOL

To redistribute capital it has to be created first. When the government owns the means of production or regulates it so much that the government is the de facto owner the creation of capital is very difficult.


How interesting. You should probably try to help all those wealthy German industrialists who never made a dime while working with Hitler.

Maybe the Thyssen Family needs some counseling?
August Thyssen was worth the equivalent of $1.4 Bn by the time of his death and the widow of Fritz Thyssen, Amalie Zurhell, earned a billion dollars from the Thyssen-Krupp merger after the war.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313630 - 08/13/19 07:41 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack


I own it.

Then you should be able see that they hatred of each other's ideology was due to the similarities of them not their differences.


Ahhhh, you may want to read the book again.
I say that because you seem to be blithely ignoring Bullock when he talks about Hitler:

Quote:
"While Hitler's attitude towards liberalism was one of contempt, towards Marxism he showed an implacable hostility… Ignoring the profound differences between Communism and Social Democracy in practice and the bitter hostility between the rival working class parties, he saw in their common ideology the embodiment of all that he detested -- mass democracy and a leveling egalitarianism as opposed to the authoritarian state and the rule of an elite; equality and friendship among peoples as opposed to racial inequality and the domination of the strong; class solidarity versus national unity; internationalism versus nationalism".


Alan Bullock, "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny", New York: HarperCollins, 1971.


I posted it earlier in the thread and you ignored it because you cannot refute it.
Should I use a larger typeface?

Naah, probably won't help.
I thought you said that you're not always right.
Because you're not right on this, and your problem is the fact that you rely on conspiracy theorists, revisionists, neo-Nazis and convicted felons instead of critical thinking.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313632 - 08/13/19 07:45 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
Not to mention, the whole reason "The Night of the Long Knives" even HAPPENED is because Hitler was bound and determined to PURGE the leftists from his party.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313635 - 08/13/19 08:13 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1414
Loc: MN
Quote:
Hitler detested socialists because they opposed him not because of any ideological differences.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/oct/17/20031017-110534-8149r/

I posted it earlier in the thread and you ignored it because you cannot refute it.
Should I use a larger typeface?
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313639 - 08/13/19 09:08 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Quote:
Hitler detested socialists because they opposed him not because of any ideological differences.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/oct/17/20031017-110534-8149r/

I posted it earlier in the thread and you ignored it because you cannot refute it.
Should I use a larger typeface?


Hahahaha, how cute, except that I didn't ignore it and did refute it, quite handily, in fact. I used Hitler's own words and the words of his closest associates.

Your WaTimes article by the way, says nothing about ideology whatsoever.
If Hitler had been a socialist, he would never, ever have been bankrolled, appeased and admired by centres of conservative power in the way that he was.

In "INSIDE THE THIRD REICH" Albert Speer, the Third Reich's last Armaments Minister, makes clear that he had great difficulty controlling the various private firms well into 1944, when the war was already going to pieces. He also notes the privatization of all the formerly state-owned arsenals, even the huge ones at Suhl, Spandau, and Amberg (13 in all!).

Thyssen ("I PAID HITLER") pointed out that the "marriage" of business and the National Socialist Party, despite Hitler's contempt for aristocracy and business in general, guaranteed high profits for businesses.
Ironically, his steel company was seized over what amounted to a personal hassle with the hierarchy, and handed over for administration and profit to Krupp/von Bohlen, rather than being "nationalized" in the pure sense, which is what would've happened in a left wing state.
Thyssen's widow wound up entrenched in the new merged conglomerate.
Also impossible had socialism nationalized the company, which it didn't.

Public education, of course, had been one of the key features of all organized states since Roman times. And National Public Health in Germany was enacted 1871-83, before Hitler was BORN, by the Bismarck government.
Hitler's state enacted NO new welfare programs, and eliminated many, sending former "loafers" to the death or work camps. Almost none qualified for military service, as the Weimar Republic had always claimed.
Hitler, of course, much like today's conservatives, attacked the Weimar government as "intrusive" and "socialist", and he HATED "Bolshevism" and "social democrats" (socialists), and proclaimed it loudly on almost every page of "MEIN KAMPF".
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313640 - 08/13/19 09:16 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
Quote:
"We are of the right and of order. We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."


--Heinreich Himmer, speech to mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.), which of course REPLACED the lefty Sturmabteilung.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313641 - 08/13/19 09:26 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
By the way...you made mention of Russian hatred of Jews.

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

-The Protocols was a work that purported to be a transcription of plans concocted at an 1897 Zionist conclave. At this secret meeting, high ranking Jewish officials, the "Elders of Zion," came up with 24 Protocols which were designed to enslave the Christian world through various sinister means. The Tenth Protocol represents a typical excerpt, proclaiming that it was the duty of Jews "to wear everyone out by dissentions, animosities, feuds, famines, inoculation of diseases, want, until the Gentiles see no other way of escape except to appeal to our money and power."

If The Protocols appeared outlandish, it may have been because they were a Russian forgery plagiarized from a 1869 German novel which, itself, was plagiarized from a 1864 French political satire. The original French work, entitled Dialogue aux enfers entre Machiavelli et Montesquieu, was intended by its author; journalist Maurice Joly, to be a savage indictment of Napoleon III. The German novel, To Sedan by Herman Goedsche, replaced Joly's world domination plan of Napoleon III with one schemed by a group of Jews in Prague. Eventually, Czarist agent, Sergei Nilius incorporated this work into his 1905 effort entitled The Great in the Small. Nilius' work was designed to deflect the misery of Nicholas II's policies onto a scapegoat--the Jews of Russia.

This work was, in turn, further elaborated on in 1917 by a group of Czarist officers living in Berlin and re-titled The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

Guess who gave the biggest and most resounding endorsement of "The Protocols" in the USA?
None other than the man regarded as history's greatest antisemite of his time, Henry Ford.

He made sure that The Protocols received wide distribution via The Dearborn Independent and he enlisted the help of Father Charles Coughlin.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313649 - 08/13/19 10:06 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1414
Loc: MN
Before attaining dictatorial power Hitler allied himself with political conservatives,... Would that include conservatives like FDR and his Brain Trust?
Father Charles Coughlin until 1936 was a strong supporter of FDR.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/charles-e-coughlin
"National Union for Social Justice

In 1935, Coughlin created the National Union for Social Justice (NUSJ) as a political action group that would represent the interests of his listeners in Washington, DC. By the 1936 presidential election the NUSJ had over one million paying members.

In 1936, Coughlin founded a journal entitled Social Justice, providing another venue to promote his populist ideology. The NUSJ tabled 16 principles as guidelines for their program for the United States. These included:

liberty of conscience and education;
nationalization of resources too important to be held by individuals;
abolition of the Federal Reserve Board;
return to Congress the right to coin and regulate money;
rights of workers to organize unions;
requisition of wealth and conscription of men in times of war;
and the principle that human rights should outweigh property rights.

Coughlin was ahead of his time in splitting his ticket and supporting issues associated with the left (such as federal support to prop up the dollar), and issues associated with the right (“America First” foreign policy).
Antisemitism

Over the years Coughlin had managed to keep his antisemitism muted while he was on the air. After his split with Roosevelt and with the rise of National Socialism and Fascism in Europe, however, he attacked Jews explicitly in his broadcasts. Some historians attribute this change to Coughlin taking advantage of rising antisemitism around the world in order to keep himself relevant. Based on his speeches, writings, and associations, however, he appears to have had significant antisemitic sentiment throughout his career.

For years, Coughlin had publicly derided “international bankers,” a phrase that most of his listeners understood to mean Jewish bankers. In the days and weeks after Kristallnacht, Coughlin defended the state-sponsored violence of the Nazi regime, arguing that Kristallnacht was justified as retaliation for Jewish persecution of Christians. He explained to his listeners on November 20, 1938 that the “communistic government of Russia,” “the Lenins and Trotskys…atheistic Jews and Gentiles” had murdered more than 20 million Christians and had stolen “40 billion [dollars]…of Christian property.”

In a series of articles published in Social Justice during 1938, Coughlin lambasted “Jewish” financiers and their control over world politics, culminating with a story recounting his own version of the infamous 20th Century forgery, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which purported to be minutes of meetings of Jewish leaders as they plotted to take over the world."
Now days are social justice workers left or right wingers? They are and always have been left wingers.
https://www.pachamama.org/social-justice/what-is-social-justice
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313650 - 08/13/19 10:08 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14166
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Fascism was also a good word back in the 1930's.
https://www.dineshdsouza.com/news/the-lefts-romance-with-fascism/


Only if you're a devoted follower of Father Coughlin.
Are you a devoted follower of Father Coughlin?

_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313653 - 08/13/19 10:52 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41554
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

The fact that Rightwing political philosophy follows a top-down hierarchy can in no way include Socialism with is all about equality. Equality is horizontal.

Fascism, NAZIsm are both top-down hierarchies because the top people in these groups actually belive there are other people beneath them - literally.
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