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#313526 - 08/12/19 10:09 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8886
Loc: North San Diego County
I like Scaramucci's tweet about Trump:

Quote:
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
Dietrich Boenhoffer

5,506
8:31 PM - Aug 11, 2019


He's also comparing Trump to Chernobyl, and saying that the GOP may replace him on their ticket for 2020.

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#313557 - 08/13/19 11:35 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
Pardon me for saying so but I don't think we agree on as much as your suggesting. Which is fine and I don't have a problem with that any more than others here disagree with some of the far right posters that sometimes return.
Some thoughts on where we might disagree would be Clintonism, Labor/Trade unionism, Defining the Democratic party as 'Left', strategies to win elections,Economic and political neoliberalism (or it's existence) etc...
But I thought that was what this site was supposed to be about. A scrum of ideas or something like it? Or is it something else entirely and I missed the thread?
As far as 'what's your stratagy to fix it?', I've given some suggestions though I don't see why it's my job to have a solution any more than it's yours. One thing is for sure, it's not online posting and I don't confuse that with real involvement. I'll say it again, posting just helps to clarify my thoughts and positions but is no substitute for real involvement.
As far as lefty voting, Sanders won in the states that Clinton failed to carry resulting in defeat. Neoliberals control the machine, campaign dollars and media so it's a little more complicated than your simplistic solution. When there's no left option how do you vote left?
When there is a left alternative that manages to break through these barriers the results can be surprising though and destroys the 'poors just don't like to vote' fallacy, IMO. A self serving view if there ever was one.
Deep down I think the problems are now insurmountable politically and economically. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of economic meltdown, a rise in facism (can't go left!) radicalized nationalism thruout the world followed by 'BOOM!'.

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#313579 - 08/13/19 04:08 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14443
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Pardon me for saying so but I don't think we agree on as much as your suggesting.



Who were you replying to, or was this a "REPLY ALL" kind of post?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313642 - 08/13/19 09:36 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15667
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Pardon me for saying so but I don't think we agree on as much as your suggesting.

We agree that the Democratic Party is not what it should be. That we are headed for economic disaster and possibly extinction.
And that something needs to be done about all this.

We have two progressive candidates on the ballot and a score of centrists. Our goal is to see that one or the other of them is elected.

The immediate areas of concern that I'd like to see dealt with in the next decade are these...A living wage. Universal healthcare. Subsidized higher education. Over the next century I'd like to see every nation on the planet following this example.

Global Utopian Social Democracy. Every nation self sufficient with a well paid, well educated, and healthy workforce.

I can see a path to this if either Warren or Sanders is elected.

So that's my plan, what's yours?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313643 - 08/13/19 09:38 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14443
Loc: Whittier, California
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me, Greger.
Which is why I am glad to hear that Liz is actually in 2nd place behind Biden in a growing number of states.
If Joe keeps sticking his foot in his mouth, she just might wind up on top.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313659 - 08/14/19 12:54 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Pardon me for saying so but I don't think we agree on as much as your suggesting.



Who were you replying to, or was this a "REPLY ALL" kind of post?


Gregor

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#313660 - 08/14/19 01:17 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
I'd like a candidate or movement that can fundamentally change the way we conceive of politics, labor, society and the economy. I would vote for that individual or group.

Short of that I'd like the Democratic party to implode to create a possibility for something else.


I had hoped that child banging Epstein would reveal the scum on top of systems of power, our two parties and our revered wealthy to be the degenerates they are.That they are fundamentally the same. That it would start something that the Panama Papers didn't.
I think this week the opposite has happened with Epstein being suicided. The wealthy and powerful are letting us know they will walk on our faces and there is no hope anything can be done about it. And now they know you know it.

So good luck voting for a wish list. See you at the edge.


Edited by chunkstyle (08/14/19 01:18 AM)

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#313661 - 08/14/19 01:44 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
You might start by electing a broad slate of women and minorities. Very likely to get a different view of things, at least until everyone sinks back into the mud.

I’m not suggesting those candidates would be inherently better - just that they’d have different points of view. Which is what you’re wanting, correct?
_________________________
Julia
Long time passing

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#313662 - 08/14/19 02:08 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15667
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I'd like a candidate or movement that can fundamentally change the way we conceive of politics, labor, society and the economy.

The movement is afoot! Bernie set it rolling in 2016 and it will not be stopped.
You're such a Grumpycat! If I couldn't see a possible way forward to defeat global warming and create a thriving global economy I wouldn't have any reason to get up in the morning.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313663 - 08/14/19 02:13 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Mellowicious]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
I did Mellow. I helped with the AOC campaign and Cynthia Nixon. Helped get another on the congressional district ballot. Door to door stuff. Phone banking etc...

Some women can be every bit as horrible as men. Thatcher comes to mind.

I would put it higher than different point of view but anything that splits with what we have as conventional political wisdom would be a good start.

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