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#313547 - 08/13/19 03:51 AM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41354
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
At one time I was a member of the Socialist Worker's Party. When I was I read and still do read Socialist literature. When was the last time you read any of Lenin's writings?

Never. smile


Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
How about Engels?

Who dat? Hmm


Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Do you know who Charles Fournier is?

Nope. laugh

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Do you know what Marx's list of 10 things that will help turn a country socialist?

You think everyone is as fascinated with socialism as you are. Hmm


Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Here's a hint they are in The Communist Manifesto. I own a copy of it, do you?

Socialism is in the Communist Manifesto? That's some real bullshte artistry, right there. Congratulations. smile
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#313551 - 08/13/19 04:41 AM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14019
Loc: Whittier, California
What I don't think Senator Hatrack understands is, I don't spend a lot of time delving through the works of any of those guys because I don't view any of them as relevant.

Sure, I'll sprinkle a dash of quasi-socialist tweaks on my capitalism the way someone sprinkles hot sauce on scrambled eggs.
It doesn't alter the fact that I prefer capitalism.

The capitalism I happen to prefer isn't pure, but it's pretty close.

Hatrack's view of people on the left is polluted by his brief dalliance with hardcore socialist party members who DID spend lots of time poring through Marx, Lenin, Engels...

People like that are pedantic, tedious and tiresome.
I mentioned Will Rogers.
His equivalent today might be Bill Maher.

I get more guidance from Bill Maher than I will ever get from Marx and Lenin, even when he annoys the crap out of me.
I listen to Elon Musk, not Charles Fournier.

Senator Hatrack is still convinced that anyone who isn't a conservative is plotting a takeover.

Green New Deal, eh?
Senator, do you even understand how a bill becomes law?
The GND was a PROPOSAL, it was never a bill and it can't be a bill, because it isn't written as a bill.

It was also probably hurriedly and sloppily typed on some laptop at AOC's kitchen table because as a rookie she did not have the funds, resources or access to the many powerful think tanks who crank out gavel ready legislation that is given to lobbyists to put in the hands of lawmakers, who seldom if ever read the actual text.

The GND was meant to start a conversation, not send paranoid people running around screaming with their hair on fire, but then...that's what paranoid people do.

Maybe someday someone or a group of people will pick up on one or two items in the GND and float a trial balloon in the form of a bill and like all bills, it will be made into sausage, which means it will be debated, redacted, edited, modified, compromised and reconciled with the Senate.

And then it has to get past the White House Oval Office.
If you see a foaming Red Tide of Socialism, maybe try adjusting your glasses.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313553 - 08/13/19 04:45 AM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41354
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
What I don't think Senator Hatrack understands is, I don't spend a lot of time delving through the works of any of those guys because I don't view any of them as relevant.

Sure, I'll sprinkle a dash of quasi-socialist tweaks on my capitalism the way someone sprinkles hot sauce on scrambled eggs.
It doesn't alter the fact that I prefer capitalism.

The capitalism I happen to prefer isn't pure, but it's pretty close.

Hatrack's view of people on the left is polluted by his brief dalliance with hardcore socialist party members who DID spend lots of time poring through Marx, Lenin, Engels...

People like that are pedantic, tedious and tiresome.
I mentioned Will Rogers.
His equivalent today might be Bill Maher.

I get more guidance from Bill Maher than I will ever get from Marx and Lenin, even when he annoys the crap out of me.
I listen to Elon Musk, not Charles Fournier.

Senator Hatrack is still convinced that anyone who isn't a conservative is plotting a takeover.

Green New Deal, eh?
Senator, do you even understand how a bill becomes law?
The GND was a PROPOSAL, it was never a bill and it can't be a bill, because it isn't written as a bill.

It was also probably hurriedly and sloppily typed on some laptop at AOC's kitchen table because as a rookie she did not have the funds, resources or access to the many powerful think tanks who crank out gavel ready legislation that is given to lobbyists to put in the hands of lawmakers, who seldom if ever read the actual text.

The GND was meant to start a conversation, not send paranoid people running around screaming with their hair on fire, but then...that's what paranoid people do.

Maybe someday someone or a group of people will pick up on one or two items in the GND and float a trial balloon in the form of a bill and like all bills, it will be made into sausage, which means it will be debated, redacted, edited, modified, compromised and reconciled with the Senate.

And then it has to get past the White House Oval Office.
If you see a foaming Red Tide of Socialism, maybe try adjusting your glasses.

Bow
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#313554 - 08/13/19 04:48 AM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41354
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Senator Hatrack is still convinced that anyone who isn't a conservative is plotting a takeover.


Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds
Pychology Today
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#313555 - 08/13/19 04:49 AM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14019
Loc: Whittier, California
Absolutely no apologies necessary, just stop telling me how I think.
Ask me.
Instead of reciting boring crap from Marx and Lenin, ASK ME what I think about the issues.

We have FIRE regulations for a reason, yes?
Fire can be a useful tool, because it can warm your home, forge your steel and iron, cook your food, etc.
It can also burn down entire towns if left unchecked.

Capitalism is a lot like FIRE. Left unregulated and unchecked, it can become predatory and very damaging, and it can unearth some pretty awful unintended consequences.

And yet when properly harnessed, capitalism can lift entire generations out of poverty, stimulate innovation and launch entirely new industries.

Capitalism has demonstrated the capability to serve as a useful and rewarding tool to serve the middle class if it operates under the right kind of regulation.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

Top
#313556 - 08/13/19 04:53 AM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14019
Loc: Whittier, California
My turn to apologize...
Senator, I hit the EDIT button on YOUR post by MISTAKE.
Please forgive me. I will try my best to recover what you wrote.

This is maybe the second or third time in two years that I've committed a blunder like this and I am truly sorry.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

Top
#313558 - 08/13/19 01:47 PM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1176
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Here's a hint they are in The Communist Manifesto. I own a copy of it, do you?

Socialism is in the Communist Manifesto? That's some real bullshte artistry, right there. Congratulations. smile [/quote]
No, it is not "some real bullshte artistry." In The Communist Manifesto Marx lists 10 ways to turn a capitalist country into a socialist country. Then after being a socialist country it would become a communist country. Had you read The Communist Manifesto you might have learned that. You don't need to own a copy of it to read it. You can get one at your local library.
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
Just because I'm a conservative that doesn't mean I'm always right.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313559 - 08/13/19 01:59 PM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1176
Loc: MN
The reason I mentioned the Green New Deal and nationalized health care is to point one very important fact about leftists. They are very patient. Nationalized health care was first proposed in 1904. It became a reality in 2010. It took leftists 106 years but they finally got nationalized health care. They believe that eventually communism will prevail. As with the implementation of nationalized health care if it takes 100 years to achieve their goal they don't care. They know it isn't going to happen this year but are convinced that eventually they will succeed.
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
Just because I'm a conservative that doesn't mean I'm always right.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#313560 - 08/13/19 02:11 PM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16832
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Hitler was totalitarian, Pres. Trump is not. To say Trump is like Hitler in any way is ludicrous!
I want to challenge this a little: In what way is Trump not totalitarian? He likes "acting" heads because they don't have to go through the democratic process of being voted up or down by Congress. He dictates policy whether or not it comports with current law. He avoids any democratic processes like the plague (and he's a famous germaphobe. He says so). He fires any dissenters. What other aspects of totalitarian rule are missing?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#313561 - 08/13/19 02:13 PM Re: Hitler vs Trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1176
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Absolutely no apologies necessary, just stop telling me how I think.
Ask me.
Instead of reciting boring crap from Marx and Lenin, ASK ME what I think about the issues.

We have FIRE regulations for a reason, yes?
Fire can be a useful tool, because it can warm your home, forge your steel and iron, cook your food, etc.
It can also burn down entire towns if left unchecked.

Capitalism is a lot like FIRE. Left unregulated and unchecked, it can become predatory and very damaging, and it can unearth some pretty awful unintended consequences.

And yet when properly harnessed, capitalism can lift entire generations out of poverty, stimulate innovation and launch entirely new industries.

Capitalism has demonstrated the capability to serve as a useful and rewarding tool to serve the middle class if it operates under the right kind of regulation.

If capitalism is over regulated it's effectiveness is diminished, if not destroyed. It is important to know about the ideas of Marx and Engels. Leftists are very patient in working to achieve their goals. That is why they will slip in the ideas of Marx and Engels, but rewritten to sound innocuous, to slowly achieve their goal of a communist world.
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
Just because I'm a conservative that doesn't mean I'm always right.
Conservative Revolutionary

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