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#313346 - 08/09/19 10:16 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1622
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas



You've already made it plain that you will only support whoever fits your exact expectations. Any deviation from those is grounds for your withdrawal.

I cannot afford that luxury. Neither can you but there is no way I will ever convince you of that.


Tell me where I've said this Jeff.

On second thought, never mind. It's really pointless. I feel like it's high school study hall fueding.

Not voting is also a vote. That comes hard to some but it's true too.

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#313347 - 08/09/19 10:32 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14173
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Doesn't make a rat's ass one way or another whether you vote or who you vote for, never has really. Clinton won by 3 million votes and lost the election did your vote matter in that election? Democrats gonna win this time, whoever gets the non nom.
They're going to take the Senate too.

Gabbard and Harris? Why is anybody even talking about them? Slow news day?


I hope to God you're right about the Dems taking back the Senate (and keeping the House, too)

No matter who wins the White House, the GOP blockade needs to be broken. Naturally I am hoping a Dem wins the White House, too.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313360 - 08/10/19 06:17 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41562
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Hillary Clinton = Republican-lite. No thank you. Hmm

Yes, we got a racist misogynistic sociopathic narcissist in return, but Hillary could never destroy the GOP like Fatass Trump is doing. A Hillary Clinton presidency would only have strengthened the GOP. America does not need a strengthened GOP. We need the GOP to go-away to the Conservative trash-heap of history.

smile

America will recover from Trump, his EOs and his incompetent Cabinet staff and his incompetent governance - the GOP never will. Bow
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#313388 - 08/10/19 08:18 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14173
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Hillary Clinton = Republican-lite. No thank you. Hmm

Yes, we got a racist misogynistic sociopathic narcissist in return, but Hillary could never destroy the GOP like Fatass Trump is doing. A Hillary Clinton presidency would only have strengthened the GOP. America does not need a strengthened GOP. We need the GOP to go-away to the Conservative trash-heap of history.

smile

America will recover from Trump, his EOs and his incompetent Cabinet staff and his incompetent governance - the GOP never will. Bow


Do you think we can afford another four years of Trump + Republican Trifecta?
I sure don't think so.
One way or another we must break the logjam. Even if Trump wins the White House, we must break the GOP logjam in Congress and take power.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313433 - 08/11/19 06:46 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1622
I think you nailed the Lib tag line for 2020.

"Trump... We can't afford another four years!"

God how I hope the Libs run on that.


Edited by chunkstyle (08/11/19 06:47 PM)

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#313439 - 08/11/19 07:25 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14173
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I think you nailed the Lib tag line for 2020.

"Trump... We can't afford another four years!"

God how I hope the Libs run on that.


If we can extricate ourselves from Trump, we have a better chance of addressing the many valid issues you have raised.
And yes, the thing that I think you miss is that I (and many others) DO recognize the points you made and see them as more than valid.
How about essential and crucial for a modifier?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313507 - 08/12/19 11:06 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1622
I'm not sure who your referring to when you say 'we', Jeff.

Under the current right wing, free market leadership in the house and the campaign apparatus, I don't see the Democrats veering from their record of the last 40 years.

So long as they remain just another faction of the corporate wing we will continue to see it's base drift away and/or be economically annihilated.

I've seen no real critique of the Democratic parties flaccid record of progressive accomplishment here. No willingness to engage conversation of it's evolution towards an illiberal democratic party happenning right before our eyes.

Heck, no one even raises an eyebrow when it's right wing leadership attacks an emergent left and sets the stage for the fascists to further exploit.

You may think the party,, after a 2020 victory, may address some of the issues I have raised but the last forty years of their record would say otherwise. That's all my point is about. Refuting the notion that the Democratic party is a force for progress.

It simply isn't any longer.

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#313512 - 08/12/19 05:25 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15317
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I've seen no real critique of the Democratic parties flaccid record of progressive accomplishment here. No willingness to engage conversation of it's evolution towards an illiberal democratic party happening right before our eyes.

Sure you have. My vehement opposition to Biden is a real critique of the Democratic party's flaccid record of progressive accomplishment. No one disagrees that the moderate/conservative members of the party have thrown a monkey wrench into whatever progressive works might be attempted. We agree with you on pretty much everything.

So what's your strategy to fix it and how do you expect change to happen in real time? What's your goal and do enough people share it to eventually vote it into existence? You beat on us and beat on us for fumbling around and trying to use the tools we've got at hand. Maybe you got better tools back at your shop, I dunno, this hammer and Skilsaw is all I got to work with here.

You want Bernie? Vote him in.

It's just that simple.
Lefties like to vote by sitting on their hands. Can't much be bothered with the voting thing, especially during the primaries. Didn't get off their asses to nominate him in 2016 and likely won't this time around.

I'm sure you voted, Chunks, but I didn't. I refuse to join the Democratic Party, just like Bernie, I usually caucus with them and haven't voted for a Republican in years. Florida's new governor may be the exception in 2022. He's doing a remarkable job and while I may not agree with him about a lot of stuff he deserves a vote of confidence and a second term. Eventually the subject of Medicaid is going to come up and I'll reserve my final judgement for his decision on that.

But yeah...neolibruls vote like crazy in the primaries, the "radical left" not so much...change that and you conquer the world.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313514 - 08/12/19 05:49 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Personal opinion... I think the President has no intention of serving a second term. Who would want to work 3 hours a day if they didn't have to?
_________________________
Life is Good!

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#313518 - 08/12/19 07:02 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: itstarted]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41562
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: itstarted
Personal opinion... I think the President has no intention of serving a second term. Who would want to work 3 hours a day if they didn't have to?

ROTFMOL

After hair and make-up, Trump makes an appearance for work around 11am EDT and finishes up the work day by 3pm just in time for some Fox News. Such an Alpha Male. coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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