Current Topics
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by perotista
0 seconds ago
Portland. A Turning Point?
by pdx rick
Today at 05:04 AM
The Republican Platform
by pdx rick
Today at 04:01 AM
Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died
by rporter314
Today at 03:05 AM
Global warming predictions
by pondering_it_all
09/20/20 09:04 PM
RoundTable for Summer 2020
by jgw
09/20/20 04:47 PM
Half of troops have an unfavorable opinion of President Bone Spurs
by CPWILL
09/20/20 07:42 AM
West Coast Burning
by NW Ponderer
09/19/20 06:57 PM
Bob Woodward's book details Trump's chaotic and dysfunctional White House
by Greger
09/19/20 06:57 PM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all
09/18/20 05:18 AM
The Boogaloo Bois
by pondering_it_all
09/17/20 08:17 AM
How the world sees U.S. and Trump
by jgw
09/16/20 09:01 PM
The Trump campaign is broke
by pdx rick
09/15/20 12:20 PM
Barr is acting as ‘personal henchman’ of Trump
by Greger
09/13/20 09:33 PM
Covid Long Haulers
by jgw
09/07/20 06:23 PM
A post, on facebook, by my granddaughter that covers it all pretty good!
by pondering_it_all
09/02/20 07:27 PM
The Democratic Fight
by jgw
09/02/20 06:09 PM
voters who don't
by pondering_it_all
09/01/20 08:35 AM
There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins
by pdx rick
08/31/20 12:43 AM
WV woman goes to Mexico with her daughter and series of TOP SECRET U.S docs
by pondering_it_all
08/30/20 08:06 PM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
16994 Topics
302860 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 90 of 176 < 1 2 ... 88 89 90 91 92 ... 175 176 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#322891 - 03/16/20 04:00 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista


As a nation we've been moving left since FDR. slowly, but surely.


Au contraire. Since 1980 we've been watching the Right systematically erase every aspect of the New Deal. And I do say "watching" because Dems have just sat and watched, seldom fighting, sometimes helping.

You've got to be kidding. The only things we've moved left on were social issues, women's equality, race, environment...and as of January 2017 ALL of THAT came to a screeching halt and began moving BACKWARD with a vengeance.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Top
#322892 - 03/16/20 11:37 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 841
Always sort of a history buff, after 1994 midterms when the GOP took back congress, Bill Clinton adjusted and went on in my opinion to have a very good presidency. After 2010, Obama didn't adjust to the new Republican House and continued on as if he still had that 257-178 Majority. He accomplished very little except by use of his phone and pen, executive orders.

I'm biased here, my top three presidents in my lifetime that I have personal experienced are 1 Eisenhower, 2 JFK, 3 Bill Clinton
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#322893 - 03/16/20 11:55 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 841
I think we see things differently there. Sure when we had Republicans presidents for the most part the movement left slowed to a crawl. But the question is how far left does one want to go. I have no problem moving left in a slow steady manner. But I don't want leaps and bounds. I don't think the American People wants gigantic leaps either. Not as a whole.

We seen what happened when Obama went full fledged ACA in 2009/10. The American people weren't ready for it and that resulted in a 63 seat loss. Bill Clinton did the same thing in 1993/94 which resulted in a 54 seat loss. The Republicans gained control of the house for the first time in 40 years.

There's a comfort zone to most people. It okay to push that comfort zone to the edges, but don't go over. If you want a giant leap, you have to make sure the people are behind that leap. I think one has to be a realist when it comes to politics. One needs to realize what is possible and what isn't. What will cause a giant blow back and what won't. Numbers can be very useful here.

Sometimes it takes years to bring the people to accept a major change in governance or in their lives. The trick is to know when the people are ready. JFK realized this with Medicare, it went no where and he didn't push it. LBJ got it passed with bipartisan support. Compare that to the ACA which was a one party affair. LBJ went on with civil rights, voting rights and more. The time was ripe during LBJ, not so during JFK.

If we get a Democratic president this November, I'd advise him to be very aware of how much the people are ready for. Push the edge of change to the edges of their comfort zone, but don't go over. Sometimes it takes time to win over the people. Push beyond their comfort zone, I'll guarantee the Democrats will lose the house in 2022. Learn from history, become a realist as to what can and can't be done.

Politics is the art of the possible. The good politician knows this, grabs the possible and put the impossible off until another day. If not, all progress stops dead cold when the other party regains control of congress because of an overstep at the time.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#322896 - 03/16/20 02:22 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Couldn't disagree more, that the country has moved left, for a multitude of observable reasons.

This countries gone so far right we have Nazi's being courted by the openly fascist political party.

Liberal's on the other hand, are fascists with plausible deniability (yeah, I know, they're O.K. with Gay and mixed marriages but economically they are birds of a feather with Republicans).

We have seen the wholesale sell off of public goods and assets achieved since FDR (good job Boomers!) while denying any improvements and additions since Reagen.

Both political parties are now wholly owned by corporations thru the purchase of the ballot box and, on the democrat side, voter suppression and ballot rigging.

Inequality has only grown over the last forty years thru legislation and Capitalist forces. Hardle a leftist movement.

Could go on but to say the country has moved left is absurd by any measure.

Top
#322905 - 03/16/20 04:32 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 841
Probably depends on one's point of view. I grew up in the 1950's when the only safety net was social security and basically nothing else. Charities and Churches took care of the poor along with neighbors. There was a free medical clinic in the town about 8 miles from our farm which also took care of those who couldn't afford medical fees. Volunteer doctors and nurses. Now this was in a era when doctors would come to your home, you didn't visit the doctors office except in case of an emergency. Anyone remember that? I wonder how anyone could say this country has moved right, we fixed a bunch of social issues, added things like Medicare, medicaid, the minimum wage and a ton of other things.

But I suppose moving left or right depends on what tint of glasses one is looking through.

Onto tomorrows primaries, the latest updated polling information. But take these numbers with a grain of salt as we don't know how the corona virus will affect turnout. But if things go fairly normal, here are the numbers compliment of Nate Silver and 538.

Arizona Biden 55% Sanders 32%
Florida Biden 65% Sanders 24%
Illinois Biden 59% Sanders 29%
Ohio Biden 58% Sanders 32%

It seems to me it's safe to assume Biden wins all four. But by what margin depends on voter turnout.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#322906 - 03/16/20 04:42 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista
Probably depends on one's point of view. I grew up in the 1950's when the only safety net was social security and basically nothing else. Charities and Churches took care of the poor along with neighbors. There was a free medical clinic in the town about 8 miles from our farm which also took care of those who couldn't afford medical fees. Volunteer doctors and nurses. Now this was in a era when doctors would come to your home, you didn't visit the doctors office except in case of an emergency. Anyone remember that? I wonder how anyone could say this country has moved right, we fixed a bunch of social issues, added things like Medicare, medicaid, the minimum wage and a ton of other things.

But I suppose moving left or right depends on what tint of glasses one is looking through.


Ask yourself how doctors and nurses could afford to be volunteers back then, and then ask yourself if those docs and nurses could still afford to do that on an expanded scale, and then ask yourself if you remember any of those poor patients getting heart surgery or dialysis at one of those clinics.

By the way, are you under the impression that our "churches and charities" are able to shoulder the entire load?
When is the last time you visited a food bank?



They are stretched to the MAX right now.
I grew up in the same time period.
By the way, it was ILLEGAL to run health insurance as a PROFIT enterprise back then, did you forget?
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Top
#322907 - 03/16/20 04:56 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista


We seen what happened when Obama went full fledged ACA in 2009/10. The American people weren't ready for it and that resulted in a 63 seat loss. Bill Clinton did the same thing in 1993/94 which resulted in a 54 seat loss.


That had nothing to do with "the people" and everything to do with paid astroturfers like Frank Luntz, who invented phrases like "government takeover of healthcare" and promoted terms like "death panels" and "unplugging Grandma".

Don't take my word for it.
Meet Wendell Potter, one of the most outspoken healthcare reform advocates in a generation.

Wendell Potter (dot com)

Quote:
Prior to his resignation in 2008, Potter was vice president of corporate communications for the health insurance company CIGNA.


When's the last time you saw a health insurance executive apologize to Michael Moore?



The reason there was such a backlash to the ACA had NOTHING to do with the people, and EVERYTHING to do with an NRA level corporate smear campaign to tarnish it to the point where people would freak out.



And if you are sincerely interested in learning more, and you can spare an hour of your viewing time, please check this out.

Yes, it's good old Wendell Potter again...



And keep in mind that he worked for CIGNA.

CIGNA is not a slapdash organization.
The company ranked No. 73 in the 2018 Fortune 500 list of the largest United States corporations by total revenue.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Top
#322908 - 03/16/20 04:58 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
From absurd to the sublime.

As a numbers oracle what was the cost of an education then as compared to today. Ditto housing, transport medicine, household debt, corporate debt, labor share, Labor organization, etc etc...

Your nostalgic reminiscences is not an argument. It's straight up boomer fantasy.

Leftism is a political, economic and social ideology. It has traditions and precedents but that would require an honest conversation. Not some self styling definitions your currently offering.

Top
#322909 - 03/16/20 05:00 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Your describing the fascist state using the organs of propaganda to get a desired result.

Been happening for the entire Democratic primary by the way.

Top
#322913 - 03/16/20 05:44 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 841
Wow, I just stated how it was in a country of approximately 150 million when we were still considered an rural country instead of an urban one. That's a starting point, did we move left from there or did we move right from there? That was the question. A number of posters have posted we went right, I don't think so. We went left and have been going left since FDR. Slow but surely.

Could those same churches, charities, neighbors etc. helping each other out do the same in an urban environment of today with a country of around 330 million? That's probably fantasy to think so. We were much more self, family, community reliant back then. More neighbor friendly and more willing to help one's neighbor.

I just pointed out a starting point for the left or right direction we as a country have taken. Now I know my neighbors would give me help if I needed it, I would help them. How many people today even know their neighbor?

My point is we have definitely moved left, not right. If you think we've moved right, please let me know how. I'm all ears.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
Page 90 of 176 < 1 2 ... 88 89 90 91 92 ... 175 176 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 28 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2