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#313657 - 08/13/19 11:48 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15136
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Greger
Y'know, the Civil war wasn't about racism.

Tell the State of Georgia that. It says specifically in their declaration of leaving the Union that slavery was the reason for their leaving. Hmm
Well, yes Rick, the war was about slavery, not racism...
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#313673 - 08/14/19 02:51 AM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1176
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

I did. The fact that Obama's career began with Ayers' help is a very bright line of their connection.


Give me a policy position, or an EO or some statement he made that is directly tied to the positions, statements or deeds of Bill Ayers.
Something more than giving a talk or a coffee.


I would guess that you have never run for political office, Jeffery, I have. From my experience I know that people have their friends over to their home to introduce them and to raise funds for a candidate they support. If they didn't support and agree with the candidate they would not have the meet and greet fundraiser in their home. When starting a political campaign and career you associate with people who agree with you. The fact Bill Ayers opened his home for Barrack H. Obama to use it to start his political career shows that they were in agreement on many issues. One of them probably was their mutual admiration for Saul Alinsky.
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#313680 - 08/14/19 03:36 AM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41354
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Greger
Y'know, the Civil war wasn't about racism.

Tell the State of Georgia that. It says specifically in their declaration of leaving the Union that slavery was the reason for their leaving. Hmm
Well, yes Rick, the war was about slavery, not racism...

gobsmacked
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#313681 - 08/14/19 03:37 AM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41354
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Wait! shocked How is owning black skinned humans not racist? Hmm
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#313683 - 08/14/19 03:40 AM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14019
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

I did. The fact that Obama's career began with Ayers' help is a very bright line of their connection.


Give me a policy position, or an EO or some statement he made that is directly tied to the positions, statements or deeds of Bill Ayers.
Something more than giving a talk or a coffee.


I would guess that you have never run for political office, Jeffery, I have. From my experience I know that people have their friends over to their home to introduce them and to raise funds for a candidate they support. If they didn't support and agree with the candidate they would not have the meet and greet fundraiser in their home. When starting a political campaign and career you associate with people who agree with you. The fact Bill Ayers opened his home for Barrack H. Obama to use it to start his political career shows that they were in agreement on many issues. One of them probably was their mutual admiration for Saul Alinsky.


I would daresay that Saul Alinsky might have been the biggest thing that they had in common. Nobody denies that Obama admired Alinsky.
Guess who else admires his book (as they misuse it today) ??
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#313688 - 08/14/19 11:07 AM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41354
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Conservatives have no core values that can't be sacrificed in the name of political expedience or profit: Southern Strategy, Voodoo Economics, and fear mongering.

Hmm
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#313695 - 08/14/19 02:16 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16832
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Just for the record, and maybe to get back to the subject of my original post, it is my opinion that Pres. Trump is about as much an American Conservative as he is an eloquent extemporaneous public speaker.
I couldn't agree more. But then, what do you make of all of those supposed "conservatives" who follow his lead on everything?
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

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#313696 - 08/14/19 02:18 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16832
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
"My maternal grandparents were forced out of their own businesses by Mussolini's Blackshirts. There was nothing socialist or lefty about it either."
Before Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile created Fascism they were both Socialists. They created Fascism because they saw that the future predicted by Marx in his writings was not happening. To make Socialism advance, as the good socialists that they were, they created Fascism as an updating of the ideas of Marx.
https://www.dineshdsouza.com/news/fascisms-karl-marx/
Well, there's your problem right there, friend. Relying on Dinesh D'Souza for anything is like expecting poetry from the white pages. I can't think of a less principled propagandist, except James O'Keefe, or less reliable source for history.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#313697 - 08/14/19 02:26 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16832
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
"My maternal grandparents were forced out of their own businesses by Mussolini's Blackshirts. There was nothing socialist or lefty about it either."
Before Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile created Fascism they were both Socialists. They created Fascism because they saw that the future predicted by Marx in his writings was not happening. To make Socialism advance, as the good socialists that they were, they created Fascism as an updating of the ideas of Marx.
https://www.dineshdsouza.com/news/fascisms-karl-marx/


By moving it all to the extreme right.
When you marinate fish in lye, does the meat turn acid or alkaline by pH reading?

Again, must I explain the difference between a collective and a cartel?

Those on the left must belief that Fascism is an extreme right wing ideology because they want to distance themselves from it. The idea that Fascism is a right wing ideology was started by Josef Stalin. He said that because anyone who disagreed with him or was a threat to his power was a "fascist" rightist anti-revolutionary.
http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch20-4.htm
OMG, I didn't think you'd follow that long discredited conspiracy theory in writing! Were the Nazis Socialists? (Britannica)
Quote:
To say that Hitler understood the value of language would be an enormous understatement. Propaganda played a significant role in his rise to power. To that end, he paid lip service to the tenets suggested by a name like National Socialist German Workers’ Party, but his primary—indeed, sole—focus was on achieving power whatever the cost and advancing his racist, anti-Semitic agenda. After the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch, in November 1923, Hitler became convinced that he needed to utilize the teetering democratic structures of the Weimar government to attain his goals.
...
Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.
Just reinjecting a little reality into the false narrative.

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#313698 - 08/14/19 02:28 PM Re: This is American Conservatism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16832
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Whataboutism detected, with a potential charge of Gish Galloping.
Are we talking about Obama now?
Of course! Didn't you know Obama was a classic conservative?

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