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#313708 - 08/14/19 05:40 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: Mellowicious]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15314
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Abortion has been around for a very long time.
Almost as long as birth itself. Some animals go full term, deliver a litter and eat it if raising it is inconvenient.

More babies than you could ever count have been gently placed outside the tent in the snow because they threatened the lives and well being of the mother, parents, or family.

It's never pleasant and it tears at our hearts whenever it happens. But it happens. It's always happened. Midwives have known for years which herbs and poisons will kill the fetus but not its host. Or how to remove one with a rusty coat hanger. Women driven to extremes like this don't really care if they live or die. This pregnancy to them signals the end of their lives anyway.

Roe vs Wade saves lives. But it's not really about lives, or babies, or men or women. When Roe vs Wade passed it was a blow to conservatives. They were strictly against it on moral and religious grounds. Even though sometimes their own daughters might die, religion and morality must hold sway over all else.

Conservatives are sore losers and have never gotten over it. They'll continue to send their daughters and mistresses away for secret abortions while fighting tooth and nail to make it illegal(but still available if you have enough money) and impossible to get for a poor college kid whose entire future depends on not being pregnant right now. Nothing really matters to them more than "owning the libs"
Roe vs Wade was the libs owning them and they cannot let it stand.

I've been wanting to write that rant down for a long time, thanks for pulling the thread back and Welcome Home Mellowicious!
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313710 - 08/14/19 06:16 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: NW Ponderer]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
The legality of Roe (40 years now) is moot if access is denied, as it is in the state of Missouri, parts of Texas, and other states where care is geographically remote.

Administration going back some have upheld gag orders overseas, where organizations lose federal funding if they so much as mention abortion, I heard part of an NPR story just moments ago that said Planned Parenthood is facing a similar loss of funding on the 19th due to a similar ruling for Title X.

The implementation of Roe vs Wade has always been precarious at best.

(Glad to oblige, Greger, although I didn't know I was.
_________________________
Julia
Long time passing

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#313712 - 08/14/19 06:25 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1421
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Don't conservatives start with God as their source for legal opinions? The Constitution is always a distant second for these folks. Imagine how they would fell if there was a large Muslim footprint in political power and their inspiration was the Quran.

I am partial to public beheadings. Who knows maybe it would catch on with the Christian fundamentalists.

No, they don't. That you even think that they do shows how little you about conservatives. Unfortunately the lack of knowledge about conservatives seems to quite common here on the Reader Rant.
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313715 - 08/14/19 06:44 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9290
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
No, they don't. That you even think that they do shows how little you about conservatives. Unfortunately the lack of knowledge about conservatives seems to quite common here on the Reader Rant.

Ah, yes... what is a Conservative these days? Thank you for putting some definition on your particular stripe, but it is one of a great many that I have seen. In fact, it is quite popular for the Regressive Conservatives to declare that Republicans are not true Conservatives - and they believe that King Kon is a True Conservative, to boot.

So you see, some of us may have a lot more knowledge of the range of Conservatives than you do, since your definition appears to be fairly specific and exclusive. This is a glitch in the functionality of discussions, if a word carries more than one meaning.

Trying to discuss socialism (small 's') is fraught with many of the same pitfalls and traps... we can't really discuss a thing without agreeing on definitions first.
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#313718 - 08/14/19 07:37 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: NW Ponderer]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
I see the old rule about sticking to the point has faded away.
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Julia
Long time passing

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#313719 - 08/14/19 07:45 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: logtroll]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1421
Loc: MN
Regressive Conservatives?
"About the Declaration there is a finality that is exceedingly restful. It is often asserted that the world has made a great deal of progress since 1776, that we have had new thoughts and new experiences which have given us a great advance over the people of that day, and that we may therefore very well discard their conclusions for something more modern. But that reasoning can not be applied to this great charter. If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final. No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions. If anyone wishes to deny their truth or their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction can not lay claim to progress. They are reactionary. Their ideas are not more modern, but more ancient, than those of the Revolutionary fathers..." Pres. Calvin Coolidge speaking at a celebration on the 150th anniversary of our Declaration of Independence.
To conserve the the ideas of our Declaration of Independence is not regressive. What is now called being a Progressive is actually to be regressive. The (so called) Progressives are the real regressives, because they want to regress to governments that are run by elitists not the average citizen.
Who the hell is "King Kon"? If I've never heard of this person I cannot have any opinion of him or her.
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313722 - 08/14/19 08:00 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
shows how little you about conservatives
Strange indeed.

For a number of years all I listened to was Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity in that order, and all I saw on TV "news" was Fox, and almost everyone I know was a conservative then and is a Trump supporter now. Do I understand "conservatives"? Yeah I think I have a pretty good idea of who they are and how they think, and I suspect I am right on in understanding Trump supporters (at least in my neck of the woods).

The facts are many if not all so called "conservatives" in Congress have at one time or another stated their allegiance was in order God, Party, and Country. So when I say they start with Christianity for their primary source of legal opinions, I think I am very close to the mark. This always amazed me because they spit nails if anyone mentions Sharia Law.

These folks can not afford to alienate the religious right. Mr Trump can do whatever he wants, even be the anti-Christ, but he is their voice and their path for their religious agenda. All the rest of these so called "conservatives" have to toe the line and pledge ... God above the secular Constitution.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#313741 - 08/14/19 11:00 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1421
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
shows how little you about conservatives
Strange indeed.

For a number of years all I listened to was Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity in that order, and all I saw on TV "news" was Fox, and almost everyone I know was a conservative then and is a Trump supporter now. Do I understand "conservatives"? Yeah I think I have a pretty good idea of who they are and how they think, and I suspect I am right on in understanding Trump supporters (at least in my neck of the woods).

The facts are many if not all so called "conservatives" in Congress have at one time or another stated their allegiance was in order God, Party, and Country. So when I say they start with Christianity for their primary source of legal opinions, I think I am very close to the mark. This always amazed me because they spit nails if anyone mentions Sharia Law.

These folks can not afford to alienate the religious right. Mr Trump can do whatever he wants, even be the anti-Christ, but he is their voice and their path for their religious agenda. All the rest of these so called "conservatives" have to toe the line and pledge ... God above the secular Constitution.

The conservatives you know live in what is euphemistically known as the Bible belt. While there is a strong contingent of conservatives who are Christians first and conservatives second there is also a large number of conservatives who are atheists. Conservatives like me. These conservatives do not support the religious right. We strongly agree with what Sen. Goldwater said about the religious right. This what Goldwater, Mr. Conservative, had to say about the religious right.
""The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' "
--Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313742 - 08/14/19 11:24 PM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14172
Loc: Whittier, California
It's nice to remember Barry Goldwater.
He was indeed a relatively sane and principled conservative.
Sadly, he would be drummed out of the GOP today.

I'll never forget his little note to Dole:
"You and I are the liberals of the Republican Party now, can you imagine that?"


His final salvo however, was telling:
"Do not associate my name with anything that you do. You are extremists and you have hurt the country more than the Democrats ever have."
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#314443 - 08/29/19 02:21 AM Re: Roe v. Wade Is Under Immediate Threat [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1421
Loc: MN
One of the reasons Roe v. Wade is on shaky ground is that it was a poorly written decision. A better written decision would have made it more difficult to overturn it. If the Supreme Court does decide to reconsider Roe v. Wade it might deliver a better written decision that keeps abortion legal. For the record my position on abortion is that it is a decision for a woman to make. The only time I have a voice in that decision is I am the father. At my age that is highly unlikely to happen.
_________________________
May you always walk in beauty.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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