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#313584 - 08/13/19 04:27 PM Hitler was not a lefty
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
It is time to kill a whacko piece of historical revisionism.
Naming names is important here because in the recent past, more than one person here has implied that Hitler's National Socialism was a left wing (liberal) idea.

And that's just nonsense.

Taking on all comers, if you think Hitler and the Nazis were leftists, prepare to be embarrassed as your theory gets dissected and exposed as sham.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313602 - 08/13/19 06:03 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1467
Loc: MN
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313604 - 08/13/19 06:12 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Go for it.

https://mises.org/library/national-socialism
The last article was written by Ludwig von Mises who lived in in Austria before WWII.


Quote:
The difference between the systems, wrote Mises, is that the German pattern "maintains private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary prices, wages, and markets." But in fact the government directs production decisions, curbs entrepreneurship and the labor market, and determines wages and interest rates by central authority. "Market exchange," says Mises, "is only a sham."


Ummm, hello...that IS fascism. The Mises article plays fast and loose with terminology. Under Communism, the state OWNS (not controls - OWNS) production. If you produce hammers, you are an employee of the state, the hammers you make are government property. The store people buy those hammers AT is government owned and operated.

Pretending to ignore definitions by altering the meaning of words and saying "The German and Russian systems of socialism have in common the fact that the government has full control of the means of production" is windyfoggery.

The German government did not OWN IG Farben, AEG, AEC, Siemens, Bayer or Oskar Shindler's company. Shindler owned his company, Shindler took home the money he made, Shindler did not work as a government employee. He CONTRACTED WITH the government.

Words have actual meanings and Ludwig von Mises is not entitled to create his own lexicon.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313606 - 08/13/19 06:26 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1467
Loc: MN
Socialism/Communism and Fascism are all totalitarian governments. In Socialism/Communism the government does own the means of production. In Fascism the government lets people "own" their business but those businesses are so regulated by the government that all of the business decisions are made by the government. If business owners are not allowed to make any decisions about what the business can or cannot do, because of government regulations, do they really own it? No, they don't.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313607 - 08/13/19 06:29 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California


The National Vanguard?
Hatrack, do you even understand that you sourced a neo-Nazi publication?

Quote:
Kevin Alfred Strom (born August 17, 1956) is an American white nationalist, neo-Nazi, Holocaust denier, white separatist and associate editor of National Vanguard. Strom resigned from National Vanguard in July 2006, but rejoined in 2012.

In 2008, Strom pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography and was sentenced to 23 months in prison, of which he served four months.


Sorry, I will not dignify an article from a Nazi newspaper with a response. What next, are you going to source "The Dearborn Independent"?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313608 - 08/13/19 06:31 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
The Nazis were originally called the German Workers Party, and the name change to incorporate the word "socialist" was partly designed to pull in working class voters by making the party seem more caring and respectable than it actually was, because "socialism" was a relatively "good" word to many idealistic people in the 1930s on both sides of the Atlantic.

But in any case, merely because a party calls itself by a name doesn't mean that this is what it stands for, and that is especially so given the low standards of honesty practiced by totalitarians.

Vladimir Zhirinovsky's Russian fascist group of the 1990s was ludicrously called the Liberal Democratic party although it was virulently anti-liberal and anti-democratic.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313609 - 08/13/19 06:32 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1467
Loc: MN
Why not? Who knows what Nazism is better than a Nazi? A weak argument must discredit the source because it cannot refute what the source says.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313610 - 08/13/19 06:34 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
Not only did Hitler detest socialism, liberalism and communism, but he was appeased in Europe partly because powerful American industrialist and some of the European right saw him and Mussolini as valuable strong men against Stalin.

This foolish admiration was a major factor in appeasement and extended almost to the eve of war.
Here's George Orwell, reviewing an English translation of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" in March 1940, as German bombs are falling on Britain:

Quote:
"It is a sign of the speed at which events are moving that Hurst and Blackett's unexpurgated edition of ‘Mein Kampf’, published only a year ago, is edited from a pro-Hitler angle.
The obvious intention of the translator's preface and notes is to tone down the book’s ferocity and present Hitler in as kindly a light as possible.
For at that date Hitler was still respectable.
He had crushed the German labour movement, and for that the property-owning classes were willing to forgive him almost anything.
Both Left and Right concurred in the very shallow notion that National Socialism was merely a version of Conservatism.
Then suddenly it turned out that Hitler was not respectable after all".


In America for some, the appeasement continued apace.
Prescott Bush was indicted under the "Trading With the Enemy Act" of 1942.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313611 - 08/13/19 06:35 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1467
Loc: MN
Fascism was also a good word back in the 1930's.
https://www.dineshdsouza.com/news/the-lefts-romance-with-fascism/
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#313612 - 08/13/19 06:37 PM Re: Hitler was not a lefty [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Socialism/Communism and Fascism are all totalitarian governments. In Socialism/Communism the government does own the means of production. In Fascism the government lets people "own" their business but those businesses are so regulated by the government that all of the business decisions are made by the government. If business owners are not allowed to make any decisions about what the business can or cannot do, because of government regulations, do they really own it? No, they don't.


Again, you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Oskar Schindler was not an employee of the state and his factories were not government property.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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