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#313789 - 08/15/19 04:56 AM Good bye? Nope! Sticking around!
Senator Hatrack Online   happy
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1467
Loc: MN
I am seriously thinking leaving the Reader Rant. Why? Because I am the only active classical liberal here. There are better things to do with my time to than to try and debate a bunch of modern day liberals who seem unable to accept anything they disagree with. The modern day liberals here are proof that they are not as open minded as they think they are.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (08/28/19 01:26 AM)
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#313794 - 08/15/19 05:32 AM Re: Good bye? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17019
Disagreement is not a sign of a closed mind.

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#313799 - 08/15/19 12:26 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: NW Ponderer]
BC Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 7498
Loc: ...Grand Ledge...
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Disagreement is not a sign of a closed mind.

Indeed...
_________________________
- - - Bob


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#313801 - 08/15/19 01:59 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
HumblePi Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/15/19
Posts: 8
Isn't it the purpose of a forum to discuss and discover? Sure, things get heated because people are dug in with their own beliefs. There's nothing more difficult for some people it seems to admit they're wrong. People usually defend their opinion even if they themselves don't actually buy it 100%.

I don't put my opinions in a category of being either conservative, liberal or independent. My opinion is based on logic, circumstances and fact. Critical thinking is cast aside when one's opinion is strictly partisan based and not fact based.


Edited by HumblePi (08/15/19 02:01 PM)

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#313803 - 08/15/19 02:09 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
Oh come on, Senator...why don't you just give us all a chance to rebuild the forum like we're doing. You're a pioneer but also, there ARE other conservatives here, like MA Republican, remember him?
Also bigswede is here, and others, and I've invited a bunch of others too.
You've only been back a few days.

Why don't you ask some of us about the conservative views we DO have on issues?
For instance, I am a firm supporter of the Second Amendment.
How do ya like that, a libtard gun owner...
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313807 - 08/15/19 02:31 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17019
Another suggestion: Invite some fellow feelers. Get some reinforcements.

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#313808 - 08/15/19 02:35 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14195
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Another suggestion: Invite some fellow feelers. Get some reinforcements.


Yeah there you go, go get some friends and bring their ass in here.
We're not ogres, and besides, you're an old friend and an old hand here at the Rant.

I asked you back because I believed in you.
Buck up, enjoy being challenged, I do.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313823 - 08/15/19 04:55 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15342
Loc: Florida
I'd sure hate to see you go, Senator. I didn't even know you were a classical liberal. Rock ribbed Republican is the way I saw you. I was just beginning to figure out that you really don't much care for Trump or the current direction of the Republican Party except when it happens to coincide with your own political leanings.

What I've seen since your return is page after page of you and Jefferey hashing over your interpretations of historic events. I don't much care about the past. But I'm very concerned about the future and want to know what the Hell conservatives plan to do about any number of impending social and environmental concerns.

I want to know your vision of the future. We can agree to disagree about how we got where we are today. It aint how you get into these things that count, it's how you get out of them.

The constitution requires government to provide for the common defense. Tanks and bombs. It does not require them to have the most expensive and powerful military in the history of the world and bases all over the world.

The Constitution also requires that it "promote the general welfare".

Something you seem to always read past and brush aside. I'd like to spend some time talking to you about that. Lot's of things I'd like to talk about. You gonna vote for Trump in 2020?

Let's spend some time thinking about that Utopian Social Democracy I dream of. It can easily be pulled off within Constitutional parameters.

Free healthcare? Where'd you ever get that idea? Medicare isn't free. Universal healthcare isn't "free" anywhere. The governments primary job is the collection and disbursement of funds for various things.

If your argument is simply that the government shouldn't do anything at all and that wealthy industrialists should go on about destroying the planet then perhaps goodbye is best.

I want solutions not excuses.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313824 - 08/15/19 05:34 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
BC Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 7498
Loc: ...Grand Ledge...
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
I am seriously thinking leaving the Reader Rant. Why? Because I am the only active classical liberal here. There are better things to do with my time to than to try and debate a bunch of modern day liberals who seem unable to accept anything they disagree with. The modern day liberals here are proof that they are not as open minded as they think they are.

Two of my favorite Republicans...not famous, are my all time favorite PoliSci prof and the other, my next door neighbor 30 years ago. Neither tolerated the lack of disagreement. It was fundamental to our discussions. Civil discussions (why I came here originally) with little attempts or acceptance of bullshit.

I credit my late prof, Doc Castor, for instilling the “don’t try to baffle me with bullshit” credo. If you have a point of view, state it, back it with facts not prose. If you have a legitimate factual argument on the point, make it. Politics, like life, is in no way black & white. Don’t wrap yourself around an absolute unless it is an absolute fact, and we all know the differences. Opinions, leanings, ideas, theories, and the like, are not facts. They are points of view regardless of how strongly they are held. If you are honest and “open” be willing & able to debate either point of view. Doc, RIP, thank you.

Carl, my neighbor, and I would sit on his back deck sipping beers til 3 in the morning, discussing the (what seems tame now) politics of the late 80s and the history that got us to that point. We both were well aware of our point of political view, both well aware of, and honest about, the flaws of the people and the parties we strongly supported or opposed. We had so many honest, calm, civil, quiet political debates...always ready to return to them and always with friendship maintained. And we always had fun figuratively jabbing each other about our politics.

It’s not hard to have those types of dialogues when people base the foundation on honest, factual debate. It does none of us in this world any good to only talk to our like minded choirs. It does none of us any good to run to those choirs when meeting a folk from the “other” choir. Bluster isn’t dialogue. And those who are decrying the lack of open mindedness are usually not willing to listen or allow their own input to be questioned, while fully expecting others to be fully questioned, deconstructed & reconstructed.

I am a socialist, a capitalist, liberal, progressive & conservative, a pragmatist, an idealist & a realist. And I believe that is what this country is & needs to be. There is a mix of political philosophies which made & make this country what it is. We aren’t & shouldn’t be what we were 240 years ago, 150 years ago, or 50 years ago. It is without doubt that people in the space 100 years from now will look back with a collective “WTF!” and wonder. Hopefully those same people have enough honest historical facts at their disposal to appreciate the context of our times, the way we should appreciate (not glorify) the context of what we now know as history, and understand why some rationale should still be beneficially exercised and some should be exorcised.

A lot of us like to think of ourselves as more saint than sinner, but we are not purely either and more in the middle of that spectrum than we like to admit. Same for our political thoughts. We are neither righteous idealists or evil “other guys”. We know the unpragmatic flaws of our own thoughts if we are being honest with ourselves.

This is a Ranting place, ain’t it?
_________________________
- - - Bob


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#313853 - 08/15/19 09:29 PM Re: Good bye? [Re: BC]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15342
Loc: Florida
It is and that was a great rant, Bob!
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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