Current Topics
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by pdx rick
03:20 AM
RoundTable for Summer 2020
by pondering_it_all
12:43 AM
What is the purpose of Capitalism?
by pondering_it_all
12:38 AM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all
10:13 PM
Little Houses
by pondering_it_all
09:42 PM
There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins
by jgw
07:30 PM
Mysteries not solved
by jgw
06:29 PM
WV woman goes to Mexico with her daughter and series of TOP SECRET U.S docs
by pdx rick
07/08/20 11:07 PM
Batsh!t crazy Kanye West just announced he's running for POTUS in 2020.
by perotista
07/07/20 11:45 PM
Drug prices
by jgw
07/07/20 05:29 PM
The Departed - 2020
by pondering_it_all
07/07/20 07:10 AM
Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2
by pondering_it_all
07/07/20 07:01 AM
Decisions
by pondering_it_all
07/06/20 07:12 PM
congress gets
by jgw
07/05/20 07:49 PM
Normal Stuff
by jgw
07/05/20 06:30 PM
the Trump Plan
by pdx rick
07/04/20 05:34 PM
Russia Secretly Offered Afghan Militants Bounties to Kill U.S. Troops, US Intel
by pdx rick
07/04/20 05:24 PM
What is wealth? How is it made? How is it accounted?
by logtroll
07/04/20 12:44 AM
These are, apparently, college kids?
by pondering_it_all
07/03/20 07:50 PM
State Voters and Covid-19
by jgw
07/03/20 07:39 PM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
16960 Topics
301109 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 15 of 17 < 1 2 ... 13 14 15 16 17 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#324764 - 04/25/20 09:53 PM Re: College debt [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16930
Loc: Florida
Quote:
But that's like stupid people maxing out their credit cards and then paying the minimum forever.


And when every student graduates they hand him a maxed out credit card and let him pay the minimum forever.

Most student loans are owned by the US Department of Education. They are essentially a lifelong tax on education. Loans should be at 0%.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#324798 - 04/26/20 06:37 PM Re: College debt [Re: pondering_it_all]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Interesting. So it's not the interest rate, but rather who holds the paper? What if instead somebody formed a coalition of retired folks who pooled their savings and lent it out as college loans. So the graduates would be paying a bunch of elderly widows the money to supplement their social security checks, instead of well-endowed colleges getting the payments. The problem is that money (and debt) are fungible: The money doesn't care who owns it.

Or is it actually the interest rates? We do have low interest government loans at 4.53% right now. That's pretty damned low, unless you pay the minimum over 30 years. But that's like stupid people maxing out their credit cards and then paying the minimum forever.



So.... you wish we had institutions that coordinated between people who had money they wished to lend, and people who needed money who wished to borrow....?
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324802 - 04/26/20 07:03 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16930
Loc: Florida
Quote:
So.... you wish we had institutions that coordinated between people who had money they wished to lend, and people who needed money who wished to borrow....?

We've got those and they have proven to be predatory.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#324803 - 04/26/20 07:06 PM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
So.... you wish we had institutions that coordinated between people who had money they wished to lend, and people who needed money who wished to borrow....?

We've got those and they have proven to be predatory.


Because they.... lend money to people who ask to borrow money?

I hate debt as much as the next guy - at some point, if you work or live around me, I'm gonna try to convince you to get out of it, but....

Lending money to people who ask to borrow money from you isn't predatory. Even Student Loans (though amazingly stupid and destructive) aren't predatory. Theft is predatory. Fraud is predatory. Assault and Battery is predatory. Mortgages are not predatory.


Edited by CPWILL (04/26/20 07:07 PM)
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324808 - 04/26/20 07:47 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16930
Loc: Florida
Even Payday loans are not predatory. Sub prime loans were not predatory, nothing in fact, is predatory as long as you are the one holding the cash and others need it. No interest is too high, no payment options to draconian, busted kneecaps, bombed businesses...

It's the Golden Rule! When you got the gold....you rule.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#324811 - 04/26/20 08:17 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


Lending money to people who ask to borrow money from you isn't predatory. Even Student Loans (though amazingly stupid and destructive) aren't predatory. Theft is predatory. Fraud is predatory. Assault and Battery is predatory. Mortgages are not predatory.


So you're basically saying that if you can't afford to throw down for four year's tuition cash on the barrelhead, don't enroll in college.

Recipe for another generation of ignorance.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Top
#324812 - 04/26/20 08:19 PM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Greger
Even Payday loans are not predatory. Sub prime loans were not predatory, nothing in fact, is predatory as long as you are the one holding the cash and others need it. No interest is too high, no payment options to draconian, busted kneecaps, bombed businesses...


Oh, solid concur - if you are out committing assault and battery, that action is certainly predatory. I would say if you force people to take on loans against their will, that is predatory.

But so long as it is the free exchange between consenting adults..... ?

They can be terrible. They can be stupid. They can be destructive. But that's not the same as Predatory, my man. smile
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324813 - 04/26/20 08:21 PM Re: College debt [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


Lending money to people who ask to borrow money from you isn't predatory. Even Student Loans (though amazingly stupid and destructive) aren't predatory. Theft is predatory. Fraud is predatory. Assault and Battery is predatory. Mortgages are not predatory.


So you're basically saying that if you can't afford to throw down for four year's tuition cash on the barrelhead, don't enroll in college.

Recipe for another generation of ignorance.


(roll eyes) Hyperbolic strawmen aren't impressive and they score you no points, man. Nowhere have I said, suggested, argued, or taught this.


Edited by CPWILL (04/26/20 08:23 PM)
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324814 - 04/26/20 08:25 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


Lending money to people who ask to borrow money from you isn't predatory. Even Student Loans (though amazingly stupid and destructive) aren't predatory. Theft is predatory. Fraud is predatory. Assault and Battery is predatory. Mortgages are not predatory.


So you're basically saying that if you can't afford to throw down for four year's tuition cash on the barrelhead, don't enroll in college.

Recipe for another generation of ignorance.


(roll eyes) Hyperbole isn't impressive and it scores you no points, man. Nowhere have I said, suggested, argued, or taught this.


You don't have to. Everyone knows that the loan market uses predatory rates. Show me a stu-loan package that doesn't.
We're not talking grants and scholarships, LOANS, student loans.
If you need one, the rate is absurdly high, and there's not much in the way of alternatives for most people, otherwise student loans would be a barren market with few takers.

So...in essence, higher ed only for those who can afford it.
For everyone else, a lifetime of crippling debt...because of course they "made poor choices"...like not being born wealthy.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Top
#324830 - 04/27/20 12:45 AM Re: College debt [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: cpwill
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
So you're basically saying that if you can't afford to throw down for four year's tuition cash on the barrelhead, don't enroll in college.


(roll eyes) Hyperbole isn't impressive and it scores you no points, man. Nowhere have I said, suggested, argued, or taught this.


You don't have to. Everyone knows that the loan market uses predatory rates. Show me a stu-loan package that doesn't.


Every student package in which the interest rate is clearly marked out is non-predatory. If they did give the borrower a false interest rate, that is called fraud and, on top of being illegal, it is indeed predatory.

I think you are confusing something that is dumb and bad for the person doing it with something that is predatory.

Again - don't get me wrong: I hate student debt. I've watched it place a crippling drag on friends and family. I've spent at this point in time probably hundreds of man-hours walking through how to avoid debt with future students; built a course for my church youth group that walks them through it (and some other stuff), helped people research detailed plans on how they in particular are going to attend X Particular College without it.

But that doesn't make student debt any more inherently predatory than car debt, credit card debt, mortgage debt, boat debt, dog debt, or any other thing that people go into debt for.

Quote:
there's not much in the way of alternatives for most people, otherwise student loans would be a barren market with few takers.


Sadly this is untrue - college loans are widely taken because they are A) assumed as part of the culture and B) easy. You don't need debt to go to college, but we've built up a lot of lies saying that you do, and it let's people pretend like they aren't - actually - going to pay for their decisions.

Quote:
So...in essence, higher ed only for those who can afford it.
For everyone else, a lifetime of crippling debt...because of course they "made poor choices"...like not being born wealthy.


My father was an assistant Methodist pastor in rural Alabama - we used to save up for the month to go to Shoney's. My folks were able to pay for about one half of one year of my college. Instead I cobbled together scholarships, grants, and work-benefits. I have a bachelors degree and two masters degrees, and borrowed precisely $0 for any of it.

This notion that you have to go into crippling debt to go to college unless you're rich is almost as harmful as the notion that "college debt is 'good' debt".


Edited by CPWILL (04/27/20 12:49 AM)
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
Page 15 of 17 < 1 2 ... 13 14 15 16 17 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 58 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2