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#313930 - 08/17/19 05:46 AM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
The last number I saw for median annual income was $49,000. Costs at your very fine school, after financial aid, are about $25,000. (There are links to student loan programs on the same page.)

Which brings me back to the beginning: does a student with heart (but not wallet) set on
Bowdoin
A) forget about it and go to a more affordable school
B) Borrow the money and hope the Bowdoin name will pay loffogf
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#313932 - 08/17/19 12:22 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41584
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



When I left college, my loan amount was $29K. I've made income-based payments for 25 years and 5 months. Today the loan amount is $111K.

The amount has increased $275% in that time due to interest of 9% which Congress has never changed in the 25 years and 5 months that I have had the loan.

This is why I will have no problem invoking the 25 year rule.

Hmm

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#313934 - 08/17/19 02:22 PM Re: College debt [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14185
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

When I left college, my loan amount was $29K. I've made income-based payments for 25 years and 5 months. Today the loan amount is $111K.

The amount has increased $275% that time due to interest of 9% which Congress has never changed in the 25 years and 5 months that I have had the loan.

This is why I will have no problem invoking the 25 year rule.

Hmm



Reminds me of the scene in Rounders when Matt Damon tells Ed Norton that "the juice is still running" on a debt that Ed owes to the local loan shark.
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The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313937 - 08/17/19 04:14 PM Re: College debt [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15327
Loc: Florida
So. From what I see here it isn't the actual student debt that's the problem. It's the interest. A lifetime of payments for a degree that qualifies you to be a lunchroom lady seems maybe a little harsh?

And then for a government loan agency to sell that debt to a private party who in turn sold it to a foriegn bank seems more than a little dicey to me. Similar to the way sub-prime mortgages were chopped up and sold? Probably a simpler answer than that but student loans, which should be viewed as an investment in the future are being used as a source of revenue. This is where our future generals will learn the history of warfare and the political struggles that make it necessary. This is where our future lawyers will learn the basis of our rule of law. Our future architects to build, our future everything is wrapped up in educating EVERYONE. It's far more important than our ability to wage war. In this day and age the very idea of war is preposterous.
But education is a necessity.

I actually consider myself more or less a capitalist. And if you took that Merriam-Webster definition of socialism as Gospel then I most certainly am a capitalist. But this. This right here. Is a f*cking travesty. This is betrayal. Of American youth, of American families, of America's future. It's a lifetime tax on education. Not a tax FOR education but a tax ON it. And like most taxes it weighs most heavily on the working class. Government should be throwing money into education, not trying to glean a Scrooge-like profit from it.
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#313939 - 08/17/19 05:38 PM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41584
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
...A lifetime of payments for a degree that qualifies you to be a lunchroom lady seems maybe a little harsh?

Menu planning and nutrient analysis. smile

Lunch ladies execute the plan. Bow
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#313943 - 08/17/19 08:24 PM Re: College debt [Re: pdx rick]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
This is going to sound snotty... but it's not meant to be.
For the student AND the parent... the college decision should be the number 1 priority, and accordingly, the preparation may well be the most important part of the next four years... monetarily as well as for future well being.

Unfortunately the selection process does not always reach to that level. Too often it is influenced by preconceived notions ... "We can only afford community college", "The guidance counselor suggested 'XYZ' or, "Your cousin Joey went there".

I'd like to cite as example that I know of (My Daughter in Law's work with her three children to work with and select the optimal school, and cost.) For each of the two sons and one daughter, she spent many.. many hours... researching, writing, visiting and seeking out the best combination of aid and future potential. This involved much work on the part of the kids, too.. as now, many schools not only look at grades, SAT scores or records of achievement outside of school... but also require the writing of essays.

In each case, submission of admission requests to as many as seven or eight colleges. I thought "crazy" at the time, but here's what happened. (I should add that all three kids are somewhat above average, so that helped.)

#1. Four year renewable scholarship for the first four years, and now in the second year of post graduate for which he also received a large subsidy.

#2. Received a Stamps scholarship
Stamps for four years... 100% Tuition, room and board, books, and $10,000 for an international trip during the last years of school. (he now has offers for postgraduate scholarships for his doctorate.

#3. Full tuition scholarship @ U of F in Tampa, and now a paid Associate in the Advanced Psychology Program pursuing PG degree.

Along the way dozens of rejections or failure to receive scholarship offers. Never talked about it this way, but I would guess many hundreds of hours in research and prep.

At this point, in today's dollars, I would guess between $700K and $1M... and maybe more.

More discipline than I could muster, but a wonderful payoff, allowing my Son and DIL to retire @ 60, with no debt.


Edited by itstarted (08/17/19 09:39 PM)
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#313945 - 08/17/19 08:49 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14185
Loc: Whittier, California
Doesn't sound snotty in the least.
If a kid has the grades and the ambition, it is wonderful that some universities and colleges see fit to take a chance on them.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313946 - 08/17/19 09:19 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
I don't think anyone here is questioning the (non-monetary) value of education. The question is, how much debt is reasonable? How and when should it be forgiven?

Should a student take on massive debt in order to attend an Ivy League school? Or should that student realize the family income is only $70K and instead take a good look at a state school?

As a tax payer, with no additional information, I'm less inclined to forgive a debt incurred for buying the luxury education rather than the more practical choice. (Not that I have any say in it.)

Also - public service options to work off that debt?
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#313947 - 08/17/19 10:51 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
BC Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 7498
Loc: ...Grand Ledge...
Originally Posted By: Mellowicious
I don't think anyone here is questioning the (non-monetary) value of education. The question is, how much debt is reasonable? How and when should it be forgiven?

Should a student take on massive debt in order to attend an Ivy League school? Or should that student realize the family income is only $70K and instead take a good look at a state school?

As a tax payer, with no additional information, I'm less inclined to forgive a debt incurred for buying the luxury education rather than the more practical choice. (Not that I have any say in it.)

Also - public service options to work off that debt?

Likewise inclined. And a PS option, a real one, works for me too.
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#313948 - 08/17/19 11:19 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
I think we need to go back to the idea that Ivy League schools are for rich kids. Most of this debt is because Middle Class kids are attending Ivies and other expensive private schools. You don't really get a much better education at those schools. Advocates claim that students who attend them have connections into the upper class and the upper class job market, but the sad fact is that there is not that much mixing between the 1% and the Middle Class kids going into whopping debt to attend. For example, poor kids can't afford fraternity or sorority dues.

State Colleges and Universities offer the full range of degrees, normally at a very competitive price. Here in California, you can even attend a community college for your general ed (and an AA degree if you want) and then those with a high GPA can transfer with full credit into the state system to get a BS or BA. This cuts the state tuition expense almost in half. (If you can't get a 3.5 GPA at the community college level, you have no business going to a state college or university.)

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