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#324956 - 04/29/20 12:47 AM Re: College debt [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16930
Loc: Florida
I figgered the only way to win was to die owing them money.

Then bankruptcy made sure I'd never owe another man a penny.

I lost.

But I'm okay with that. I'm happy with the way things worked out for me. I live by the Rede and the Threefold Law and there is more to life than money. I'm blessed in more ways than I can count.
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#324961 - 04/29/20 03:17 AM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
"Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


And you may say what you will about the current system "mercy" is not a part of it. Our federal government has determined that an hour of a man's time is worth $7.25. Merciless to say the least.


The federal government has determined that an hour of a man's time is worth $7.25. There are men (and women) who earn $10, $20, $40, $100 an hour and more. Had the government determined that an hour of their time was worth $7.25 and mandated that, none of that would exist.

Instead what has happened is that the government has declared that if someone's labor does not provide more than $7.25 an hour plus the cost of taxes plus administration costs, you are not legally allowed to hire that person, and must therefore leave them in unemployment.

As for "Mercy" however, for that man or women who does make $7.25 an hour, the federal government provides healthcare, food assistance, a wage boost, etc. so on and so forth. The structure of many of these programs is often destructive - not least because it punishes wise decisions - but they are absolutely in place motivated by mercy.

And that's fine. I think we should have mercy. But it's not "fairness". Fairness would be you get what you earn, and nothing else. Strict Justice is Without Mercy.

Quote:
Fairness on the other hand is a living wage.


No. You are confusing "something I would like" with "something that is fair", and a "living wage" is something that will vary wildly from place to place and individual to individual. What a 16 year old needs to survive while living with his parents but wanting to pick up gasoline money during summer vacation in rural Ohio is very different than what a 30 year old with a wife and two babies needs to get by in the same place, and wildly different from the latter's counterpart in San Diego.

Quote:
Else we might as well call them slaves and be done with it. Then anything short of flogging the skin from their backs is perfectly fair and mercy is up to the Boss Man.


I've worked for less than $7.25 an hour. Don't recall getting whipped smile


Edited by CPWILL (04/29/20 03:20 AM)
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#324962 - 04/29/20 03:25 AM Re: College debt [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


I'm not sure, however, that economic "fairness" is really what you're advocating for, there. "Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


Not sure what "fairness" has to do with it.


It was the value he raised. Personally, I think we can afford Mercy, and probably should, to the extent that we can do so without doing Harm.

Quote:
What makes the economy function best? Because the current model is crap.


As near as we can tell, what makes the economy function best is a predictable and consistent but light regulatory environment, strong institutions that militate against extractive politically connected interest groups, low debt burdens, low tax burdens, an educated populace, good infrastructure, the ability to access a wide variety of markets, etc. so on and so forth. The current model has many problems, but is still producing the best living standards ever reached in the history of the human species.
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#324963 - 04/29/20 03:26 AM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Is she willing to take any advice or follow-on help?


Of course not.


Damn. I have a strong-willed daughter, and was hoping the Daddy-Connection stuck around after the teen years were over :-/

Quote:
But she's smart and a hard worker so she'll be okay. I worked for sh*t wages all my life and managed to survive so she will too.


I sincerely hope she does well.
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#324969 - 04/29/20 03:52 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 601
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


I'm not sure, however, that economic "fairness" is really what you're advocating for, there. "Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


Not sure what "fairness" has to do with it.


It was the value he raised. Personally, I think we can afford Mercy, and probably should, to the extent that we can do so without doing Harm.

Quote:
What makes the economy function best? Because the current model is crap.


As near as we can tell, what makes the economy function best is a predictable and consistent but light regulatory environment, strong institutions that militate against extractive politically connected interest groups, low debt burdens, low tax burdens, an educated populace, good infrastructure, the ability to access a wide variety of markets, etc. so on and so forth. The current model has many problems, but is still producing the best living standards ever reached in the history of the human species.


I can put nitrous oxide in my engine, and I will go fast. For a while.

This doesn't mean that it's the best way to run my engine.

Likewise, 200 years of boom and bust is not the best way to run an economy.
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#324978 - 04/29/20 07:46 PM Re: College debt [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


I'm not sure, however, that economic "fairness" is really what you're advocating for, there. "Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


Not sure what "fairness" has to do with it.


It was the value he raised. Personally, I think we can afford Mercy, and probably should, to the extent that we can do so without doing Harm.

Quote:
What makes the economy function best? Because the current model is crap.


As near as we can tell, what makes the economy function best is a predictable and consistent but light regulatory environment, strong institutions that militate against extractive politically connected interest groups, low debt burdens, low tax burdens, an educated populace, good infrastructure, the ability to access a wide variety of markets, etc. so on and so forth. The current model has many problems, but is still producing the best living standards ever reached in the history of the human species.


I can put nitrous oxide in my engine, and I will go fast. For a while.

This doesn't mean that it's the best way to run my engine.

Likewise, 200 years of boom and bust is not the best way to run an economy.


Hm. Alright. If the last 200 years of freeish enterprise and Liberal (classically understood) Government have been so dangerous and terrible, what 200 year period in human history do you believe we were better off in?


Edited by CPWILL (04/29/20 07:47 PM)
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#324987 - 04/30/20 12:29 AM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16930
Loc: Florida
With a little luck, the next 200 years.
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#324988 - 04/30/20 02:34 AM Re: College debt [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl

I can put nitrous oxide in my engine, and I will go fast. For a while.

This doesn't mean that it's the best way to run my engine.

Likewise, 200 years of boom and bust is not the best way to run an economy.


You can even put napthalene in there.
Of course, in about fifty miles your mufflers will have holes in them, and in another 150-200 miles so will your pistons.
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#325099 - 05/03/20 03:59 PM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Greger
With a little luck, the next 200 years.


smile Hopefully. I suspect, however, that will require that we not chuck everything we've (painfully) learned about good limited human governance over the past 3,000 years.
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