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#324834 - 04/27/20 02:36 AM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Instead I cobbled together scholarships, grants, and work-benefits. I have a bachelors degree and two masters degrees, and borrowed precisely $0 for any of it.


Jeezus, it's like you've never read a thing I've ever said on the subject. You were not born in the 1990's or the 2000's.
Neither was I. 1957 model here, and I've written ad nauseum about how easy and cheap it was to save for school.
Like you, I did not pauper myself to get an education.

Why are you recalling ancient history as an example of what's possible today? That doesn't make any sense. That's like me explaining the importance of adjusting ignition points to a guy in a 2018 Dodge, which doesn't even use a distributor.

Stop selling Blinker Fluid. Today's college debt is a phenomenon not because kids are lazy or made poor choices but because the options aren't near what they used to be.
And WE NEED a generation of highly skilled techies if we expect to play in the marketplace.
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#324835 - 04/27/20 02:43 AM Re: College debt [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 451
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Instead I cobbled together scholarships, grants, and work-benefits. I have a bachelors degree and two masters degrees, and borrowed precisely $0 for any of it.


Jeezus, it's like you've never read a thing I've ever said on the subject. You were not born in the 1990's or the 2000's.


I was born in the 1980s - I'm a millennial. I completed my last degree program in 2015. When we talk about people crushed with student debt, we are talking about my friends, my workmates, my classmates, people in my small groups, the parents of my kids' friends.

Quote:
Why are you recalling ancient history as an example of what's possible today?


2015 isn't ancient history. Neither is August of 2019, which is when a couple of the High School seniors I worked with on this subject began their fully-funded college experiences without debt. A couple more are supposed to begin this upcoming fall, assuming the Covids' don't shut everything down.

Quote:
Stop selling Blinker Fluid.


smile Stop making bad assumptions laugh
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#324882 - 04/27/20 07:26 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17282
Loc: Florida
Quote:
a couple of the High School seniors I worked with on this subject began their fully-funded college experiences without debt.

And yet your friends, associates, and familiars are loaded down with college debt. Not everyone has a counselor to lead them along this glorious socialist path, CP, many must rely on Democrats to steer them in the right direction.

My oldest daughter was determined to be rich and successful. She received a full scholarship and supplemented it with various grants and other assorted freebies. She got her BS at Palm Beach Atlantic College, right across the waterway from Trump's Florida residence.
She stated a small business washing and polishing the yachts and fishing boats of the rich and famous. She got her Masters down in Lauderdale.
Then she married a rich guy, moved to Hawaii and hasn't spoken to me for years.

My youngest wasn't a good student. Though she wanted to go to college there were not many programs willing to help her. She chose not to go to college because she didn't want to be saddled with the debt. She's a barrista at Starbuck's and will never amount to much of anything unless she too marries a rich guy. Unfortunately she's a lesbian and her fiance is as poor as her but is saddled with health issues and is currently unable to work. She's a talented artist with a recent degree from Full Sail. Looks like her career has taken a nosedive before it even got started...

A Tale of Two Daughters. The best of times, the worst of times.

I'm worried about the little one but there's nothing I can do to help her. And so I advocate for a system which is fair to those in the service industry and pays them a living wage. I advocate for a world where artists can earn a meager wage yet still receive the medical care they need. A world where a UBI is there if you need it. A world where health care is taken for granted. We have the resources and the technology to make it happen. We do not and may never have the will.
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#324889 - 04/27/20 09:03 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Instead I cobbled together scholarships, grants, and work-benefits. I have a bachelors degree and two masters degrees, and borrowed precisely $0 for any of it.


Jeezus, it's like you've never read a thing I've ever said on the subject. You were not born in the 1990's or the 2000's.


I was born in the 1980s - I'm a millennial. I completed my last degree program in 2015. When we talk about people crushed with student debt, we are talking about my friends, my workmates, my classmates, people in my small groups, the parents of my kids' friends.

Quote:
Why are you recalling ancient history as an example of what's possible today?


2015 isn't ancient history. Neither is August of 2019, which is when a couple of the High School seniors I worked with on this subject began their fully-funded college experiences without debt. A couple more are supposed to begin this upcoming fall, assuming the Covids' don't shut everything down.

Quote:
Stop selling Blinker Fluid.


smile Stop making bad assumptions laugh


My assumptions are based on you providing anecdotes about a couple of kids versus the reality encountered by most people.

My wife and I have helped well over a dozen disabled vets get connected to the bennies and healthcare that they deserve, but you will not see me running around saying that it is very easy for a vet to get connected to all this stuff, because regardless of the tiny handful we have helped, it remains a challenge often requiring the help of a qualified attorney that specializes in that, much the way getting your SSDI may involve similar kinds of legal help.
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deepfreezefilms.com

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#324929 - 04/28/20 06:15 PM Re: College debt [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 451
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: cpwill

Originally Posted By: Jeffrey J. Haas
Stop selling Blinker Fluid.


smile Stop making bad assumptions laugh


My assumptions are based on you providing anecdotes about a couple of kids versus the reality encountered by most people.


You assumed I was talking about degrees programs that cost something akin to what you paid, or at least from 3 or 4 decades ago - or, as you described it, "Ancient History", and that my assessments flowed from that dated understanding.

You assumed incorrectly - I am talking about today's college environment, with which I have direct experience. smile

Quote:
My wife and I have helped well over a dozen disabled vets get connected to the bennies and healthcare that they deserve


laugh Good for ya'll, man laugh

Quote:
but you will not see me running around saying that it is very easy for a vet to get connected to all this stuff, because regardless of the tiny handful we have helped, it remains a challenge often requiring the help of a qualified attorney that specializes in that, much the way getting your SSDI may involve similar kinds of legal help.


Well I'm glad you are available to help, though I'm sadly not surprised at all that you found a giant program like the VA or Social Security to be an administrative nightmare that poorly serves those it is nominally set up to support.

That, however, does not change anything I pointed out.


Edited by CPWILL (04/28/20 06:19 PM)
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#324931 - 04/28/20 06:28 PM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 451
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
a couple of the High School seniors I worked with on this subject began their fully-funded college experiences without debt.

And yet your friends, associates, and familiars are loaded down with college debt. Not everyone has a counselor to lead them along this glorious socialist path, CP, many must rely on Democrats to steer them in the right direction.


Oh heavens no. frown Democrats are the one's helping to put them in the crap positions to begin with.

But you are right that many do not get good advice, and that many of my peers are loaded down with crushing student debt. frown

Quote:
My oldest daughter was determined to be rich and successful. She received a full scholarship and supplemented it with various grants and other assorted freebies. She got her BS at Palm Beach Atlantic College, right across the waterway from Trump's Florida residence.
She stated a small business washing and polishing the yachts and fishing boats of the rich and famous. She got her Masters down in Lauderdale.
Then she married a rich guy, moved to Hawaii and hasn't spoken to me for years.

My youngest wasn't a good student. Though she wanted to go to college there were not many programs willing to help her. She chose not to go to college because she didn't want to be saddled with the debt. She's a barrista at Starbuck's and will never amount to much of anything unless she too marries a rich guy. Unfortunately she's a lesbian and her fiance is as poor as her but is saddled with health issues and is currently unable to work. She's a talented artist with a recent degree from Full Sail. Looks like her career has taken a nosedive before it even got started...


:-/ I'm sorry you (and they) have had those issues pop up - especially the first. It is true that if you don't have a plan or pursue anything in particular, you will typically kind of just wander unless by luck or happenstance you fall into just the right thing at just the right time.

Quote:
I'm worried about the little one but there's nothing I can do to help her.


Is she willing to take any advice or follow-on help?

Quote:
And so I advocate for a system which is fair to those in the service industry and pays them a living wage. I advocate for a world where artists can earn a meager wage yet still receive the medical care they need. A world where a UBI is there if you need it. A world where health care is taken for granted. We have the resources and the technology to make it happen. We do not and may never have the will.


I do not think we have the resources to make a UBI of the kind you seem to be describing happen - though, we do (and, I'm an advocate for this) have the resources to repurpose our current transfer-payment spending into a Negative Income Tax that brings take-home-pay up for those earning below 200% of the poverty line.

I'm not sure, however, that economic "fairness" is really what you're advocating for, there. "Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


Edited by CPWILL (04/28/20 07:15 PM)
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#324937 - 04/28/20 08:43 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL


I'm not sure, however, that economic "fairness" is really what you're advocating for, there. "Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


Not sure what "fairness" has to do with it.

What makes the economy function best? Because the current model is crap.


Edited by Hamish Howl (04/28/20 08:44 PM)
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#324940 - 04/28/20 10:03 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17282
Loc: Florida
Quote:
"Fairness" is getting precisely what you earn, and nothing more or less. I, think, perhaps, what you are advocating for is Economic Mercy.


And you may say what you will about the current system "mercy" is not a part of it. Our federal government has determined that an hour of a man's time is worth $7.25. Merciless to say the least.

Fairness on the other hand is a living wage. Else we might as well call them slaves and be done with it. Then anything short of flogging the skin from their backs is perfectly fair and mercy is up to the Boss Man.
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Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324942 - 04/28/20 10:21 PM Re: College debt [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17282
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Is she willing to take any advice or follow-on help?


Of course not. But she's smart and a hard worker so she'll be okay. I worked for sh*t wages all my life and managed to survive so she will too.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324951 - 04/28/20 11:37 PM Re: College debt [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10342
Loc: One of the Mexicos
According to what I've observed in the Capitalist Creed, if you don't die with a wad in the bank, you lost the game of life.
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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