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#313963 - 08/18/19 08:12 PM What if making a public threat....?
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
.... carried the same penalty as the crime itself?
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#313964 - 08/18/19 08:17 PM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: itstarted]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
Nope, sorry. You can't punish someone for something they haven't done.

Oddly, I remember making this same point in a death penalty discussion years ago, here at RR.
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#313966 - 08/18/19 09:05 PM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: Mellowicious]
itstarted Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Okay... I hear you....
"punish for something they haven't done".

Note... didn't say punish....I said "carried the same penalty". Did not say convict.

And if the kid calls the school systems in your town with a bomb threat, would bringing him to court and charging him be punishment?

Words have meaning. respect

Suppose the guy down the street says, I'm gonna shoot up Walmart!?

...and even if it was just a joke?

conviction versus penalty... not quite the same.
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#313969 - 08/18/19 11:05 PM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: itstarted]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
According to Webster's, punishment is the infliction of a penalty.

There is a certain amount of playing with words here, so I'll make myself as clear as possible.

When a crime or misdemeanor has been defined, a penalty is also defined.
The penalty can be inflicted, or carried out, only when someone is charged and found guilty of that crime or misdemeanor.
One can be convicted of threatening murder, and/or of committing murder, but the two are not the same and they carry separate penalties.

Sorry - this is my second attemp at a post; the first disappeared into the ether.
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#313971 - 08/18/19 11:45 PM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: Mellowicious]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Interesting...
Johnny is home sick, and feeling mean. He calls the school, or writes a note... "The School is wired with a bomb that will explode at noon."

Police come , check out the school, find no bomb... Johnny confesses, receives two weeks detention... or at worst, may be charged with a felony... usually a year in jail.

My point in the beginning, was hoping that the law would provide the ultimate charge.... attempted murder.

Making clear to the population the seriousness of the crime, IMHO, would give pause to many troublemakers... like this:

Pressure cooker threat

This does not preclude a trial, but if only a partial influence on those who would try the offense, something more than what now disappears in the news.

For obvious reasons, I would not suggest that going 70 in a 65 mph zone should entail a $1,000 fine, but I think you'd agree that it might slow down some freeway traffic.
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#313972 - 08/18/19 11:53 PM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: itstarted]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
And my point is that "Johnny" would be charged with a bomb threat and not an actual bombing, and the penalties for the two are not, and should not be, the same,
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#313975 - 08/19/19 12:10 AM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: Mellowicious]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
smile we can agree to disagree...

onwards and upwards. Bow
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#314057 - 08/21/19 06:04 PM Re: What if making a public threat....? [Re: itstarted]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
Dear God, It - I think the penny finally dropped for me. I donít know why I didnít see what you were getting at - or rather, I saw it from the wrong perspective - and I apologize for my obtuseness.

I still think itís a seriously bad idea, though, so Iíll sign that Ďagree to disagreeí doc if youíve got it handy.😄
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