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#313826 - 08/15/19 06:14 PM College debt
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
My own feelings are all over the place on this one.

Many students are borrowing so much in student loans that they are saddled with a debt that they'll always be paying, but never pay off. And frankly, they whine about it - perhaps reasonably, perhaps not?

Is this happening because
  • Colleges and universities charge too much
  • Students are making bad decisions about where to go and how much to borrow
  • Students, parents, and employers over-value degrees and institutions?

Students (more accurately, graduates) are screaming for debt relief - should they get it?
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#313827 - 08/15/19 06:34 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15403
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Mellowicious
My own feelings are all over the place on this one.

Many students are borrowing so much in student loans that they are saddled with a debt that they'll always be paying, but never pay off. And frankly, they whine about it - perhaps reasonably, perhaps not?

Is this happening because
  • Colleges and universities charge too much
  • Students are making bad decisions about where to go and how much to borrow
  • Students, parents, and employers over-value degrees and institutions?

Students (more accurately, graduates) are screaming for debt relief - should they get it?


Well, right off the bat, I wonder how it was even possible that they were able to redefine student debt as some unique kind of debt that can't be discharged by bankruptcy.
I don't think there is any other kind of debt in that category.
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#313829 - 08/15/19 06:46 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
Actually, you can include student debt in bankruptcy (don't know if that's the right way to
phrase it) - at least according to Google. But that would only apply to some.

I'm not sure I see bankruptcy a a solution rather than a bitter end.



Edited by Mellowicious (08/15/19 06:47 PM)
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#313833 - 08/15/19 07:03 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3050
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I believe bankruptcy, as 'fixed' by the Republicans, disallows 2 kinds of debt subject to bankruptcy - 1)owed to banks and 2)owed to government.

Some folks just get wrecked. The current disaster point, I think, is healthcare. The secret may be to never borrow from a bank to pay off your debt!

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#313836 - 08/15/19 07:30 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/student-loans-bankruptcy/

Just making a point; not sure it's an important one.

Some people do just get wrecked, and healthcare is a good example of that. But we're talking about college loans, which are voluntary, unlike a sudden health crisis.

Please pardon me while I re-learn the tags.


Edited by Mellowicious (08/15/19 07:30 PM)
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#313837 - 08/15/19 08:02 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
BC Offline
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Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 7507
Loc: ...Grand Ledge...
To a degree, I think it is akin to pharmaceuticals, the health industry & others.
We take our drugs, do our lab work, have our physicals -IF WE ARE ABLE - to stay healthy & move our lives on to better things. There is little or no excuse to the price we as a country pay for it. It is simple, blatant greed.

Colleges & the college financing industry - loan businesses as a whole, really - are profit centers. No such thing as non-profit, and no reasons for the associated skyrocketing costs. Colleges are, or should be, there primarily to help people better themselves to then better the community around them, the larger nation community around that, and the world community in the end. There’s that idealism.

They also do very legitimate & beneficial research, many in their own specialized subjects. Its cost is “provided” with grants, higher tuition, donors, corporate sponsorship & the like. Does it help educate the students borrowing to pay their tuition? To a degree, as they are allowed to help & learn through the process. Does it help the government providing some grants? In that it might help the nation - likely specific segments or industries - yes. Does it help corporations? Definitely.

All legitimate, but as with a lot of other entities & processes, a whole lot, or few actually, get wealthy in the process and that does not trickle down to the student population...or tuition would actually be getting cheaper or stay stable. My thoughts...

When I worked at a public university I observed a few things. If the state was pressured to pressure its colleges to limit tuition rises (or lose some funding) the schools complied and moved its cost increases to other facets - housing, books, fees for everything.

To the question ‘are we overvaluing degrees & institutions’, i think yes & no. Schools do make students - who have a plan/goal - pay for and take courses they probably to not need to satisfy that plan. Speaking on my own behalf, while I enjoyed most of it, my four year degree meant far less from a professional context than the community college degree in IT I pursued several years later. I think the first degree, meandering through possible degree/life possibilities rounded me out better, it (through a lot of my own fault) gave me few career paths - International & Public PoliSci/Econ/Business combo.
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#313838 - 08/15/19 08:04 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
BC Offline
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Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 7507
Loc: ...Grand Ledge...
Oh...and should they get relief? Mostly, yes. And the opportunity for a targeted education funded by those who are profiting from the universities.
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#313840 - 08/15/19 08:11 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15403
Loc: Whittier, California
"Ability to benefit".
Unlike many I don't think "free college" is a cure.
If it is free to all then one might question if it's worth anything to most.
But there are MILLIONS of bright kids who have everything, the gifts, the grades, the ability and the ambition, and all they lack is the money.

A means test and testing for ability to benefit can give us a clear picture of who needs free tuition the most. Standards don't have to be 100% rigid but 90% is probably perfect. If it is clear that they can make it in college as they made it in high school, give them the tuition if they can't afford it.

We're not "giving away free stuff", we're investing in our own future.
We have to, or the future is guaranteed to be dystopian.
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#313843 - 08/15/19 08:29 PM Re: College debt [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Mellowicious Offline
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
"Ability to benefit".
Unlike many I don't think "free college" is a cure.

Unlike free high school?

Quote:
If it is free to all then one might question if it's worth anything to most.

Like air? And housing? wink

Ability to benefit would be harder to assign/define than financial need is now!
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#313845 - 08/15/19 09:00 PM Re: College debt [Re: Mellowicious]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15403
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Mellowicious
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
"Ability to benefit".
Unlike many I don't think "free college" is a cure.

Unlike free high school?

Quote:
If it is free to all then one might question if it's worth anything to most.

Like air? And housing? wink

Ability to benefit would be harder to assign/define than financial need is now!





Hmmm, I never thought of that, but I sure did take my share of Ability to Benefit tests once upon a time.
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