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#314001 - 08/19/19 07:25 PM "For Profit"
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2571
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been watching, and reading, about a lot of thoughts on a lot of stuff. I thought I would try and simplify.

We now have a "For Profit Healthcare System", minimally socialized. Nobody calls the current system for profit, except me (as far as I can tell). That being said it is, absolutely, "For Profit". This means that operates, basically, for profit, not the patient. I doubt very much that there is much argument about this one. My point is that sometimes its a good thing to call a spade a spade and, I think, this is one of those.

I can remember when a state (forget which one) tried to institute a for profit fire department. If you didn't subscribe they let your house burn down. It failed. I also remember when a governor of New Mexico (later a candidate for president as a Libertarian) decided to create a for profit prison system (cleverly renamed the "Privatized Prison system of New Mexico) - that too failed. One can make a long list of privatization failures but I think my point is made for good or bad. Oh, just one more. Our dear leader is for for profit highways, bridges, damns, etc. People tend to forget that one but its referred to as his plan to fix our infrastructure. That too will fail.

My point is stuff that is for profit is, by definition not in the best interest of most of our nation. No one even vaguely suggests, for instance, a for profit police department. One of those would reasonably called a corrupt police department.

Anyway.... I just don't get it. We have a corrupt, self serving, not particularly good system of healthcare and people are busily suggesting this or that solution. I am for a incremental approach to healthcare simply because that is the only way the nation is going to be able to peacefully, and actually, get to a 100% NOT for profit healthcare system. A NOT for profit healthcare system is called, basically, a single payer system which means, simply, that everybody is taxed to pay for everybody's healthcare. It really is that simple and the war is how, not why, not when, but HOW!

One last, one of my repetitive cries. Nobody whines about non-profit police departments, fire departments, libraries, and (most of the time) public education.

Sorry, education probably deserves a paragraph all by itself. The current administration supports for profit educational systems. As far as I can tell they are working, very hard to destroy our public system and it also publicly backs for profit higher education which is pretty much an ongoing disgrace. This is just one more of the things that the current administration has been able to 'normalize'. I find it interesting, for instance, that in other places most high education, especially in stuff needed, that education is basically free if the student maintains specific grades and performs public service after graduation. Canada, for instance, educates its doctors that way.

Anyway, I am not against for profit endeavors. There are, however, I believe that there are certain undertakings, those which are socially responsible and necessary for the well being of the nation which should not be privatized or for profit. I believe that these things should be sold on that basis. I also believe that, in the end, their socialization is better for society, cheaper to provide, and just make sense. I am big on the sensible part........

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#314004 - 08/19/19 08:20 PM Re: "For Profit" [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14343
Loc: Whittier, California
Cars, homes, clothing, electronic gadgets, fancy foods, art, music, construction equipment, farm tools, there are literally hundreds of thousands of industries where profit is a great idea.

Health, education, military, law enforcement and public safety don't happen to fit any of them however.

Love your post, well said.
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#314036 - 08/20/19 08:51 PM Re: "For Profit" [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1767
Why can't I make money off your health issues, now or eventually?

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#314058 - 08/21/19 06:45 PM Re: "For Profit" [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2571
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I was trying to point out services that are better offered by gov than capitalists. As long as gov does offer the services, and you think you can do better, and cheaper, have at it. So far that one is a failure, as far as I am concerned but you certainly have the right to try. I also suspect that, under those circumstances, gov should control and regulate the hell out of you!

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#314062 - 08/21/19 10:10 PM Re: "For Profit" [Re: chunkstyle]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Why can't I make money off your health issues, now or eventually?


Because youíre likely to make a mess of it (nothing personal!) Youíre not going to make a lot of profit providing emergency care in far-flung rural areas, or drug clinics for the homeless and/or impoverished. Gerontology, at least for the elderly ill, is expensive as hell, although a profit can be made.

What about treatment for probably-fatal cancers - or do you refuse treatment on the grounds that resources would better be spent elsewhere?

No thanks. Itís horked up enough as it is.
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#314064 - 08/21/19 10:58 PM Re: "For Profit" [Re: Mellowicious]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
jgw....
Thanks for opening a good discussion.

The "Personal Healthcare for All", is probably the most over spoken and under analyzed subject in the political arena today.

My guess is (sadly) that it will be little more than that in the coming years. Cut to the quick, the balance between $$$ and moral fiber in government has come to this low bar...

"First Do No Harm"

That's about the best I've seen from our legislators, and changing the system to do something positive, by redirecting monies away from the oligarchy to the welfare of the general public is unlikely to happen in my thinking.

As far as I can see, even any short term benefit... (not a change in policy) has only come with an accompanying major increase in long term debt... not from any reallocation of monies from the multi millionaires and multi billionaires.

And so... two ways to finance... you and I pay more, or we pass off the cost to our kids.

I think of it this way... If I have $100,000. and my tax rate is 50%, I have $50,000 left. If the billionaire has $10,000,000,000 and his tax rate is 50%... he only has $5 billion dollars left.

....hmmm... preaching to the choir. crazy
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#314066 - 08/22/19 12:22 AM Re: "For Profit" [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8791
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, Medicare A + B + D, versus Medicare Advantage is a case where insurance companies offer competitive health care at a lower price. I have an Advantage plan that costs me nothing, but the Medicare Part B premium and it includes drug coverage equivalent or better than Medicare part D. The one disadvantage is that it is an HMO, so I have to use a certain medical group...exactly the same one I have used for years even with the same Primary Care physician and the same Neurologist!

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#314068 - 08/22/19 01:18 AM Re: "For Profit" [Re: pondering_it_all]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The one disadvantage is that it is an HMO, so I have to use a certain medical group...exactly the same one I have used for years even with the same Primary Care physician and the same Neurologist!


That one disadvantage was a big one for us. We were snowbirding in Florida... (6 + 6) when jeanie had a stroke. Very luck, the best surgeon in Florida was giving a talk at the hospital... he operated... 5 hours... and did a miracle carotoid artery surgery that worked.

The bill was $175,000.... Our Illinois HMO doctor refused to honor the medical bills because he hadn't authorized the operation, and had us frantic for three months until the bill was finally settled by insurance.
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#314069 - 08/22/19 01:34 AM Re: "For Profit" [Re: itstarted]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
About medical prescription drugs.

A simple example.....

6.1 Million Americans have AFIB (Atrial Fibrillation). (I'm one)

The most doctor Prescribed Drugs are Xarelto and Eliquis.

The lowest cost per month for either of these drugs... even with Medicare D Plan, is about $480.00 per month. ($5800.oo/yr.

The lower cost drug Coumadin, requires the sufferer to go for shots and blood testing every two weeks.

How long does it take a drug company to recover the development costs?

Is there any limit to the cost of a drug? A May 24 news article:

Quote:
Zolgensma, a new drug approved by the FDA Friday, costs more than $2.1 million.

(that's one person, one year)





Edited by itstarted (08/22/19 01:36 AM)
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#314070 - 08/22/19 02:44 AM Re: "For Profit" [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 475
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
I have had AFib since June 2000.

I take Sotalol AF (heart rate), a generic and Warfarin (Coumadin)(blood thinner) another generic. Now I know, this next is because of my insurance but a 180 count (90 day) supply of Solatol AF costs me $3.00. While the Warfarin 5mg costs $7.00 for a 90 day supply. Also, I PT/INR test bi-weekly at home with a CoaguCheck device, like a diabetes testing device (prick the finger, place a drop of blood on the test strip and wait a few seconds for the results and then report them.

Another good thing is Warfarin has a reversal protocol, I forget which of the two you mentioned does not. That means, if I suffer a serious bleed, or they need to quickly cut me, they give me a shot and a few minutes later the effects of Warfarin are gone, and they can get about their business.

Talk to your doctor about changing meds. To change to Soltalol AF you may need to be hospitalized for about 5 days as they dial in your dosage.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (08/22/19 02:47 AM)
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