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#318969 - 12/14/19 12:45 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
That’s good. Democrats should run on that.

“We’re better than them!”

Oh wait...

They already did.

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#318974 - 12/14/19 04:21 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356

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#318987 - 12/14/19 07:00 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3453
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I did. The Republicans are waaaay ahead of the Democrats when it comes to wrong. They just can't help themselves. We have now been exposed, in just the last week their Incredible skills of lying, innuendo, name calling, volume, and all the rest. Still, the Dems too have had their problems over the years and, in the end, contributed to the cause of 'winning' instead of doing their jobs. An examle might be interesting. I remember when Biden bragged on working with the other side to get things done (the way its designed) and the serious lefties attacked him full bore for even thinking it was the right thing to do. Yep, if its a contest then the Republicans win hands down and they deserve it! They work, very hard, at it, credit where credit due! (but the Dems to have contributed to the mess)

I continue to believe, however, that the Democrats are amazing at not really fighting back in any meaningful way. Think about it. Called the party of tax and spend and they don't even bother to note that most of that comes from bailing out the nation after yet another Republican financial disaster (which they rarely mention). Trump regularly attacks them for being the party of do nothing and obstruct everything. This, in spite of the fact that the Republicans are really the do nothing party. They have, for instance, passed a whole 50 pieces of legislation in the last 3 years whilst the Dems have sent those same Republicans well over 270 pieces of legislation which Moscow Mitch refuses to even put to a vote. This being the case when was the last time you heard a Democrat, except for Pelosi, point even a bit of that (there are exceptions but they are few and far between). Nope - they just ignore yet another lying slander from the Right. It just goes on and on. The Democrats, I think, are determined to be the civilized ones and just don't care what they are called (a serious mistake as far as I am concerned).

I will also point out, in passing, how the UK treated their 'socialists'. Makes no difference over here, the Democrats just keep on preaching socialism at every opportunity. Unfortunately there are signs that will cause the Democrats to lose and Trump to serve another 4 years unless they are very lucky.

I continue to hope I am dead wrong on this one.



Edited by jgw (12/14/19 07:25 PM)

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#319019 - 12/16/19 02:46 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The predictable republican response. Not that it ever occurs to conservatives to work with progressives for a change. Smother them in the primaries and break bread with, well.., what? Ethnofascists? Republicans? One of the two parties we’re only ever supposed to have?

A reminder of how much centrism has failed:

‘The centrist Liberal Democrats – who campaigned harder against Jeremy Corbyn than Boris Johnson – failed to deliver a surge in seats. Its leader, Jo Swinson, lost her own seat after her performance in the general election devolved rapidly. The Lib Dems presented themselves similarly to establishment Democrats across the pond: a respectable third way between the Conservatives and Labour, and effectively a single-issue party committed to staying in the EU by any means necessary. Last spring Nancy Pelosi met with members of Change UK, a collection of Labour MPs who quit the party over opposition to its leftward shift. Two of the three MPs she met with lost their seats last night. The other spent this election season urging marginals – think swing districts, in US-speak – to vote for Johnson.

Let’s also not forget these politicians’ and pundits’ recent record in the US. Democrats lost over 1,000 seats under Obama and handed a rash of state legislatures over to Republican trifectas, neglecting the kind of decentralized, grassroots organizing that fueled his campaign to victory. They lost miserably in 2016 mounting a wildly unpopular candidate committed to maintaining the status quo. And none of them have faced any consequences, continuing to lead the party into what may well be an abyss. Their counterparts elsewhere are losing ground to the far right, or ceding on points like migration. The left may have lost, but the center is hollowing out.

Full article


Edited by chunkstyle (12/16/19 02:46 AM)

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#319021 - 12/16/19 03:31 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17047
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I continue to believe, however, that the Democrats are amazing at not really fighting back in any meaningful way. Think about it.


Yes, think about it...that would upset the applecart wouldn't it?

Something might change mightn't it?

Think also about the fact that the candidates the DNC wants on the ballot are the ones most like the Republicans.
And they usually get what they want.

Which isn't what the majority of the people want...it's what the rich ones want and what corporate lobbyists buy.

What I'm sayin' here is that the game is rigged. Both parties answer to the same master.

The voters have within their powers the ability to change this. But every time the opportunity arrives they get flim-flammed out of it one way or another. We have before us an opportunity...so it's really just a matter of waiting to see how we get flim-flammed out of it.

One good way would be to split the progressive vote to give the win to the party favorite. I wonder if they've thought of that?

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#319028 - 12/16/19 05:32 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Well now,

Here's a democrat that's more honest about his orientation at least:
Anti-impeachment Democrat poised to switch parties

Is this what you mean about working across the aisle, JGW? Really, what's the difference between this guy and, say, party favored WV's Joe Manchin or Illinois' Dan Lipinski that are backed over more progressive challengers by the Democrats primary structures (DSCC, DCCC)?

Begs the question why the Democratic party talks about being 'left' but always favors the right, even in blue voting districts. Odd that. Such a mystery there...



Edited by chunkstyle (12/16/19 05:34 PM)

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#319033 - 12/16/19 07:39 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3453
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Chunk, you work about as hard as anybody I have heard of to stand up and fight for absolutely nothing. its truly weird. If I was to ask you just what you are for I am absolutely sure I would be gifted with incredibly ambiguous technical political blather that, basically, would probably confuse the hell out of me as well as hurt my feelings as I am kinda delicate.

Apparently you are for NOT working across the isle. Instead you choose to use a quisling, who is determined to keep his job, to define just what "work across the isle" means. The simple fact is that working across the isle means that two people, on opposing sides, agree that there is a problem and that they may have the capacity to both get it done by agreeing to what to do. This is not compromise so much as two reasonable people agreeing to a solution they can both live with. Its that simple. I suspect you actually don't believe that is even possible. You might actually consider such a thing although, as far as I can tell you belong on the camp of the purists (you know, that select group of political nazis who would rather condemn than support, and would never deal with the enemy no matter what). What bothers me about that one is that group actually voted for Trump last time around because they didn't get their way.

One can almost appreciate your capacity to work, very hard, to make sure that Trump gets another 4 years. Its really not so much about left and right as much as there being 2 sides (without the labels). To vote for a side you have to decide whether you want the Trump side or the other side. Apparently your druthers is the Trump side, or, possibly, you just don't care and the important part is really the blather.

At the risk of p*ssing you off it sincerely hope you lose. I am saying that because you are win/lose kinda guy. I know you want to win but have yet been unable to figure out, in plain words, just where the hell you stand.

I, on the other hand, want Trump gone. I tend to not deal with winning and losing as that, in itself is a dead end and got us where we are today. I just want the Jackass gone so we can all move on (both sides). In other words I am completely disinterested in what the Dems do, say or act. I just want Trump gone and, apparently, you don't care one way or another as the important thing is to pick nits whilst displaying an incredible, and impressive, capacity for political jargon.

Again, I just want Trump gone. I have absolutely no interest in anything but that which tends to help that along. I literally do not care about anything else. If the Dems win THEN I will care but, until then..... I stand neutral on impeachment as I have no idea if its gonna help, not help, or doesn't make a difference.

I just want Trump gone.......... (and I seem to have a lot of company on that one)


Edited by jgw (12/16/19 07:43 PM)

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#319035 - 12/16/19 08:06 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: jgw]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: jgw

I, on the other hand, want Trump gone. I tend to not deal with winning and losing as that, in itself is a dead end and got us where we are today. I just want the Jackass gone so we can all move on (both sides).


People act like the republic is going to recover from all of this.

I mean, it would, if Trump was the root cause problem. But he isn't.
_________________________
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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#319041 - 12/16/19 09:56 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17047
Loc: Florida
Ayup...late stage capitalism is the problem. I want that gone.

I want evangelical Christianity gone too. I want white supremacy gone. I want corporate money out of politics, and I want income inequality addressed.

Getting rid of DJT will do nothing. We'll still be rocking back and forth in the same mudhole as he walks away.

Only a progressive federal agenda can dig us out of this mess. It's important who replaces Trump.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#319048 - 12/17/19 03:15 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10126
Loc: North San Diego County
I would say replacing Trump with Pence is not what Pelosi has in mind. I think she wants the triple crown: Presidency, House, and Senate going Democratic in 2020. Then all sorts of things become possible.

But that won't be enough. You have to show everybody that acting like a dictator in the White House has very negative consequences, else lots of future Presidents will do the same thing. Start by indicting Trump for all the criminal things he has done, by both feds and states. Then charge all his little troll helpers for their roles in the conspiracy. Then wrap it all in a RICO charge and confiscate all their ill-gotten gains. Everybody who contributed to this mess should be ruined.

And I think that, more than anything, will end this shared delusion about "alternate reality".

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